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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:15 am 
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Is this parody any different than the stuff on SNL?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:19 am 
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However, Chip should have seen this one coming and used better judgement. Everyone knows the GOP has a perception problem when it comes to race relations, so funny or not, I would have avoided it.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:30 am 
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BTW..When Mike made those "racially insensitive" remarks at the NRA conference about Obama getting shot, does that mean he is disqualified from running again for President?

If people are going to cast Chip as a "racist" that would mean Mike has some close associations with a "racist", who actually ran his national Presidential campaign. So, if Chip goes down, them Mike could forget about his political future. That's just the way I see it.

Chip made a political mistake, the same way Mike made a political mistake. Let's remember that.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:36 am 
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tdavisjr wrote:
Is this parody any different than the stuff on SNL?


No, but (as you put in your next post), this situation is different. If Chip were trying for a guest spot on SNL, this would be a good move (I guess). But he's seeking to be the head of a party that already has (partly in perception, partly in reality) a problem.

It might even be a 'good move' if he were auditioning for a talk radio spot (sad to say). But again, he did this to 'campaign' for the job of head GOP leader.

And that tells me he lacks discernment for such a job. If he wants a 'nothing's sacred' kind of image, that's his business - but it seems to me this is the wrong time for that kind of message.

He mentioned 'pandering' on his blog. Yet this seems like it's pandering to the Rush crowd of the party, a crowd that is not predisposed towards Mike Huckabee.

Either way, it's just stupid.

(tdavis, I agree that this is a political mistake, and that people make those mistakes. But Mike immediately apologized for the bad joke he made. Chip has not apologized; in fact, he's defending this move.)


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:40 am 
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tdavisjr wrote:
Is this parody any different than the stuff on SNL?


I certainly think so.

When you title a song "<Pick A Name> the <Pick an Adjective> Negro," you are doing so pretty much because you want people to be shocked into paying attention to the song. Negro is a somewhat deprecated term and most people do not use it in modern speech. If used in a mocking way, such as in a parody, it may sound to some people as if it were a proxy for another word beginning with the same letter. And so even if a newspaper columnist used the term "Magic Negro," I don't think that SNL would set it to music. They are smart enough to know that it would generate unnecessary backlash and that there are other ways to achieve the intended parody that are less risky.

The people in SNL are known for going after everybody, but they don't have a reputation, as far as I know, for showing insensitivity to any particular racial or religious group. On the other hand, Rush Limbaugh has long referred to biracial Barack Obama and even Halle Barry as "Half-rican Americans," in addition to a scattering of comments that have bothered people and caused them to question his motives for doing so. He may be the greatest guy in the world for people who know him but when he touches racial humor, it certainly gives me the opinion that he's looking for a way to make fun of me without putting himself in the position of losing sponsorship. I think he does this and I think he has fun doing it and I think there are people who enjoy seeing him do that. I don't think that this exists in SNL in that context.

And if SNL saw that a particular form of satire blew up badly in the faces of someone else and offended and upset people, I don't think they would do the exact same thing.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:49 am 
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tdavisjr wrote:
BTW..When Mike made those "racially insensitive" remarks at the NRA conference about Obama getting shot, does that mean he is disqualified from running again for President?

If people are going to cast Chip as a "racist" that would mean Mike has some close associations with a "racist", who actually ran his national Presidential campaign. So, if Chip goes down, them Mike could forget about his political future. That's just the way I see it.

Chip made a political mistake, the same way Mike made a political mistake. Let's remember that.


I don't know that one person here has said that Chip is a racist. I haven't. But you don't have to be a racist in order to say something stupid that offends people in a racial context.

Regarding Mike's joke, you may remember that I wrote a long article defending him about it (http://thevaluesvoter.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!F3D4C1BC1D8B0D91!821.entry). But let's think about the differences here.

Mike made an off-the-cuff comment in reaction to a loud sound. He didn't plan to make a comment about Obama getting shot. It was a joke that bombed. On the other hand, Chip took a song that was known to tick off and upset people and which got national news, put his face and the title on the cover of a CD and put that, along with a track called the "Star Spanglish Banner" and then sent it out to a somewhat large group of people - a year and a half after it caused all the chaos and caused even Rush's stations to become nervous. Not so off-the-cuff.

Mike apologized immediately and made no excuses for the joke. Chip has not apologized, tried to brush off the situation by saying that most people have a sense of humor about these things and then blamed the media. I see no similarities in how they've handled this.

Mike has a long-established reputation for understanding the painful aspects of racial prejudice and how people are affected by it. Because of this, he gets the benefit of the doubt when he makes a mistake, as we all do. But the GOP at large seems to somewhat regularly have incidents in which high-profile members of the party say things that appear to many to be racially insensitive. And so when a Republican, and I hate to say this - especially one from the south, who does not have this background and reputation, says something that just seems boneheaded and unnecessary, he does not get the same benefit of the doubt.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:56 am 
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chapelccino wrote:
tdavisjr wrote:
Is this parody any different than the stuff on SNL?


No, but (as you put in your next post), this situation is different. If Chip were trying for a guest spot on SNL, this would be a good move (I guess). But he's seeking to be the head of a party that already has (partly in perception, partly in reality) a problem.

It might even be a 'good move' if he were auditioning for a talk radio spot (sad to say). But again, he did this to 'campaign' for the job of head GOP leader.

And that tells me he lacks discernment for such a job. If he wants a 'nothing's sacred' kind of image, that's his business - but it seems to me this is the wrong time for that kind of message.

He mentioned 'pandering' on his blog. Yet this seems like it's pandering to the Rush crowd of the party, a crowd that is not predisposed towards Mike Huckabee.

Either way, it's just stupid.

(tdavis, I agree that this is a political mistake, and that people make those mistakes. But Mike immediately apologized for the bad joke he made. Chip has not apologized; in fact, he's defending this move.)


It does sound like he's pandering to the Rush crowd, doesn't it.

I posted a comment - respectful but explaining my disapproval - to Chip's blog. I wonder if he will bother to publish it.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:58 am 
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I'm not black, and I'm completely offended by this stupid, immature song... and I'm deeply disappointed in Chip Saltsman for sending it out to anyone.

And I certainly don't like his lame attempts at an explanation. "They do it too, Mommy!"

And I don't like the way he says, "We should welcome all people into our party." When that lands on my ears, it sounds like, "We've enjoyed having an exclusive country club, but I supposed we should relax our rules and let some of the less-desirable people in, if they want to come to OUR club." It would be far better to say (and believe): "We, the Republican party, represent the best hopes and goals of ALL Americans. Our party has always been made up of a diverse cross-section of Americans from all walks of life. We have always stood for freedom, respect, opportunity, and prosperity for ALL people. I regret that my poor choice of humor does not reflect the true values of my party. I APOLOGIZE to everyone, especially people of color, for my terrible lapse in judgment."

Also.... I've seen two posts here in this forum asking, "Is this any worse than what you see on SNL?"

That reminds me of my 13-yr-old son. Sometimes when he gets in trouble, he says, "Yeah, but Abby does it, too." Wah! Only trouble is, Abby is SEVEN. Let's not try to make Chip's stupid mistake OK by comparing it to the standards set by a raunchy late-nite comedy show.

If Chip's career isn't over, it should be. Bad taste in humor, EXCRUCIATINGLY bad judgment, and inability to take responsibility for a huge mistake.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:00 am 
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Just a stupid, unnecessary embarassment ...

http://www.tmz.com/2008/12/27/rnc-white-album-officially-drops/

RNC White Album Officially Drops
Finally, the perfect stocking stuffer for Republican's dreaming of a White Christmas – a CD called "We Hate the USA" with the hit track, "Barack the Magic Negro."

It's true -- RNC candidate Chip Saltsman pimped the 41 track CD to fellow committee members to get them in the holiday spirit.

As if the RNC Kool-aid couldn't get any more bizarre, the Obama tribute is sung by an Al Sharpton impersonator, to the tune of "Puff the Magic Dragon."

The song, first spun live by Rush Limbaugh, includes the lyrics "See, real black men, like Snoop Dogg, or me, or Farrakhan, have talked the talk, and walked the walk, not come in late and won."

What's next -- "Ivory and Ebony" and "The Star Spanglish banner?"

Wait, they're on the CD too.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:11 am 
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All-in-for-Mike wrote:
Also.... I've seen two posts here in this forum asking, "Is this any worse than what you see on SNL?"

That reminds me of my 13-yr-old son. Sometimes when he gets in trouble, he says, "Yeah, but Abby does it, too." Wah! Only trouble is, Abby is SEVEN. Let's not try to make Chip's stupid mistake OK by comparing it to the standards set by a raunchy late-nite comedy show.



I just asked if the parody was any different than what you see on SNL. I didn't excuse what he did and I tried to make that clear in comments after that.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:14 am 
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chapelccino wrote:
(tdavis, I agree that this is a political mistake, and that people make those mistakes. But Mike immediately apologized for the bad joke he made. Chip has not apologized; in fact, he's defending this move.)


If he wants to keep digging, then I gues there is nothing we can do to stop him. At this point, the damage is already done and I'm think any apology at this point would be "a day late and a dollar short". So, I'm guessing he feels this is his only option.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:20 am 
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On Chip Saltsman's website, there are three endorsements there -- and one of them is Mike Huckabee's. *sigh*

The other two: one is from Bill Frist, and the other is by some obscure state senator or representative.

Things that make ya go "Hmmm...."

I wish Chip would take Mike's endorsement off his blog, so it doesn't damage Mike's future any more than it already has.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:23 am 
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TheValuesVoter wrote:
I don't know that one person here has said that Chip is a racist. I haven't. But you don't have to be a racist in order to say something stupid that offends people in a racial context.


Sure, you're not calling him a racist and nobody on this forum has; but outside this forum I can take a good guess what the perception is going to be. And where is Chip from again? Oh, SC, I guess that says it all.

I haven't purchased Mike's book yet; but did he talk about the issue during the campaign with the confederate flag while he was trying to win SC? I though that was somewhat of a political mistake as well.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:24 am 
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All-in-for-Mike wrote:

I wish Chip would take Mike's endorsement off his blog, so it doesn't damage Mike's future any more than it already has.


We have to remember that - as far as we can tell - Mike has not addressed this publicly yet, and has not withdrawn his endorsement. And I'm not expecting him to - in the middle of the night. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:29 am 
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tdavisjr wrote:
Sure, you're not calling him a racist; but I bet that is what the perception is going to be. And where is Chip from again? Oh, SC, I guess that says it all.

I haven't purchased Mike's book yet; but did he talk about the issue during the campaign with the confederate flag while he was trying to win SC? I though that was somewhat of a political mistake as well.

I agree with you on this one -- the minute I heard Mike say the comment about the Confederate flag, I winced! I told my husband on the spot: "He should have denounced the Confederate flag as a symbol of entrenched racism. He should have said, 'While I respect your right to fly that flag, I wish that a country with Christian roots would see that flag as a sad reminder of a time when Americans systematically abused other human beings. Personally, I'd love to see the end of that flag being displayed. We ought to love one another, not offend each other. Let's put the sinful stain of racism firmly behind us by agreeing to find some other symbol of the South."

Instead, Mike made a crass remark defending the flag. I was sad and disappointed. I even called his HQ in Little Rock and told them so.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:33 am 
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Lets remember this wasn't Mike who did this. I agree this was primarily a political mistake by Chip. Certainly not well thought out, but as a man, I trust him and don't believe he is a racist or bad person, since Mike chose to associate so closely with him. That said, a dumb mistake, and his near term political future may be toast. Then again in 2 weeks maybe the story will have blown over. When GH made his Obama joke I thought it would really end up hurting him long term more than it did. Why would his former campaign manager's mistake hurt him any worse? I don't think it will. Especially given GH's history with the African American community.

It will be sad if Chip isn't part of Huck 2012...but it won't be the end of the world for GH if it happens.

Let's keep things in perspective.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:41 am 
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Jack_Somers81 wrote:
When GH made his Obama joke I thought it would really end up hurting him long term more than it did. Why would his former campaign manager's mistake hurt him any worse? I don't think it will. Especially given GH's history with the African American community.

It will be sad if Chip isn't part of Huck 2012...but it won't be the end of the world for GH if it happens.

Let's keep things in perspective.


Good point, Jack, about how this isn't Gov. Huckabee saying this, and to keep things in perspective.

But I just want to note again that when Gov. Huckabee made his Obama joke, he apologized: on his site, on TV, and to Barack Obama personally on the phone. That's the huge difference here.

I get what you're saying how this shouldn't hurt Mike more than that would - but it's not good publicity, and the 'associations' thing has become a huge thing for conservatives, so I'm sure some would try to reverse it. I don't think it would stick.

The bigger issue is that if the GOP is to win, they have to 'get it' in regards to how to talk - and how to think. This isn't the way.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:54 am 
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chapelccino wrote:

The bigger issue is that if the GOP is to win, they have to 'get it' in regards to how to talk - and how to think. This isn't the way.


I agree totally.

Chip isn't Mike and he will not inherit the good will that Mike has earned - especially after continually refusing to apologize. But my concern is for Mike. He needs to speak up. Soon. The longer he waits, the more likely it is that his silence will hurt him and the association, though he did nothing himself, will damage him.

I also have a decent opinion of Frist. My former Bishop knows him. Chip has added complication to his former clients.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:29 am 
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IowaforHuckabee wrote:
Disclaimer: I also have never liked the song about Grandma being run over by a reindeer. :D

I agree. I was close to one of my Grandmas and this song was not funny to her.

I think this may be the best explanation for what is going on here. We are all sensitive to jokes or satire directed towards our own race, religion, ethnic group, gender, etc....

We all have to lighten up somewhat. I do agree that Chip should not have distributed the CD but if we are going to call him out for this we should call everyone in the food chain out for being racist. Most of the articles I have seen have noted the original article where this comes from which is good thing. And they mentioned Al Sharpton's comments also.

Not trying to pick a fight here, but do those in the black community see the black on black racism that is ocurring?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:58 am 
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Lemme say that I agree (somewhat) with most all the comments in this thread --even the contradictory ones. Lemme also say that this post will be somewhat verbose in its reasoning.

I don't have a problem understanding that TVV is offended, and that he feels rightfully offended. I respect him for that, because I just respect and appreciate him, in general.

At the same time, I understand the intent (I think) of those (like Adam, ec, and tdavisjr) who say he "shouldn't be offended".

When I first heard the song (on Rush), I didn't laugh. But, neither did I get filled with righteous indignation.

Rather, I was just sorta stunned. I was like, ohh, my. Do, you really wanna go there? That is just too edgy and risky. And, too racially insensitive.

But, upon reflection I think it can seem funnier --later on-- to some people (at least it did to me) whom it didn't seem initially funny too. If you listen to it more than once, and focus on the words, and imagine the intended irony.

I think it will only seem funny if you appreciate irony in general and ridicule of politicians in particular, especially absurd politicians and their whacky behaviors. (Is there really anyone in politics more absurd than Al Sharpton?)

So, if you think (as I do) jabs about Bill Clinton being the "first black President", or Barack being the "2nd black President", as an indirect jab at Clinton, are funny you might begin to see some humor in this song.

Why do I say that?

Remember one of Rush Limbaugh's favorite phrases is: "demonstrating the absurd by being absurd".

Lemme elaborate. I think there are two ways that people whose ancestors come from sub-Saharan Africa (how's that for a labored way of identifying a group?) are talked about with regard to race.

First, there is the biological identity that anthropologists tried to racially classify as Negro (n), Negroid (adj.), now preferred as Black African.

And then, there is the American political-speak of race: Negro, Colored, Black, Afro-American, "People of Color" African-American. No doubt, some others less well-known to the general population.

What Rush (and Paul Shanklin) are ridiculing is political blackness (if you will).

Why is that?

Because, as we know, the left is famous for "identity politics". Vote for me (or appoint me) because I'm black, hispanic, gay, a woman, yada, yada, yada...

IOW, identity politics is typical (even definitive) of the left. Whereas, with intellectual conservatism (ala., National Review, Heritage Foundation, et. al.) is always supposed to be about ideas --irrespective of identity.

Now, I think the intended intellectual point of this parody is directed at the way that political blackness is dealt with in this society, NOT the way that biological race is viewed.

But, the problem with music is that it is first emotional. And, only later (if at all) intellectual. How many people know lyrics of the songs they like (other than a few major phrases.)? We don't wanna think about our songs, we just wanna feel them.

So, the gut reaction to this song, like any song, is viseral. Like when I first heard it, and said, Ohh, my.

But, dwelling on it and imagining Al Sharpton singing the song through a bullhorn --I'm sorry, but as Larry the Cable Guy would say, "I don't care who you are, that's funny right there!"

IOW, the forest is worse than the trees.

The initial effect of first exposure, is of general racial deprecation --like racial jokes, caricatures like: Amos and Andy, Lil Black Sambo, Stepin Fetchit., etc.

But, the deeper reflection is upon the point of the LATimes article, combined with the way that Rush and Shanklin see racial politics used absurdly.

This point, a valid one, is better made in calm reasoned discussion or well-thought articles --not in song parodies. The serious argument being made is lost in the shock effect.

Rush does quite an able job of making the point (even quoting Shelby Steele). I wonder what TVV and others who are shocked by the song make of Rush's defense. (When I say defense, I don't mean defending the parody itself, but rather the intellectual point the parody is supposed to be making.)

Here's Rush:


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