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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:08 am 
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I think Chip made a bad mistake. I don't pay much attention to what goes on in the democratic party, and there's probably a double standard here and I'm sure well known democrats have done worse things, and Chip probably has a legitimate "Chip" on his back because of this double standard (although I'm going solely off of what others have said about the democratic party).

However, I think what would've been best for him in this situation was to "turn the other cheek" and apologize for what he did even though there may be a double standard. Obviously, the Republican Party needs to do better among minority voters. However unfair the political climate may be for Republicans, someone running for RNC Chair has to be aware of it and accept it, not cry foul about it. TVV is right when he says that things like this hurt conservatives and republicans.

I'm very interested to hear what Mike Huckabee says about this. I find it ironic that Southern Doc quoted from Proverbs 26 on page 4, and this controversy apparently came out on the 26th. If Mike still reads a chapter of Proverbs every day of the month then he would've read those verses a couple days ago. I doubt that Mike will throw him under the bus, but I'm wondering if he will unendorse him. Certainly someone running for RNC Chair should not be doing something like that, and the fact that Chip hasn't apologized for it isn't good, at all. I think Mike clearly understands the political climate when it comes to race - I'm reminded of his appearance on Morning Joe after the Jeremiah Wright scandal broke out, when he pointed out that Wright was probably subject to a lot of racial bigotry and that many of us would have had a chip on our shoulder if we had grown up in such an environment.

This is off-topic, but I'll bring up (in light of our recent gay marriage discussion) that the same political climate that exists for Republicans on the race issue, exists for Republicans on the gay marriage issue when it comes to young people. Many young people perceive anyone who is against same-sex marriage as being intolerant, and this is going to be another HUGE perception battle for Republicans going forward. I'm not sure but I'm willing to bet that a lot of homosexual people in this country have been subject to violence and acts of hatred because of their lifestyle (a lifestyle that I do not agree with, as a Christian, but they should not be subject to violence). Mike obviously understands the political climate for Republicans when it comes to race, but I don't know if he understands the political climate for Republicans (primarily among young people) when it comes to gay marriage. In the future, he needs to be able to present his case for a Federal Marriage Amendment while making sure people understand that he does not hate gay people. I really hope Mike got to read that discussion thread or at least some of the comments that were made...obviously though, there is a more pressing issue to attend to right now.

I feel bad for Chip because I've said a lot of dumb things in my young life without thinking and gotten in trouble for it. I don't believe for one second that he is a racist; I just think he went with that "call the audible at the line of scrimmage" mentality that someone (I forget who) a couple pages ago pointed out that Mike mentioned in his book, and it got him in trouble. I just wish he apologized for what he did, even if he is being treated unfairly. This kind of stuff just reflects poorly on the Republican Party and we need to get away from it.

I'll be praying for Mike's response. I think he might have an opportunity to do something really good here.

And VertiCon...don't forget about Nancy Pelosi when it comes to absurd politicians :D

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:02 am 
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beezwax wrote:
Not trying to pick a fight here, but do those in the black community see the black on black racism that is ocurring?


Good discussion, even though we all have strong feelings on this topic - we need to talk through things.

I'm against racism in all forms. I don't like racism between races or within races. I don't believe in the idea that some people are "authentically" black and others aren't or that there is some type of test (if there is, of course, I've failed it in the eyes of people who think that way because I vote for Republicans and didn't vote for Obama).

I didn't necessarily like the original artical - even though the term "Magic Negro" is not one that the author of that article created - it existed beforehand. But, some things bother me. When it was set to music and given the attention-grabbing title "Barack The Magic Negro" and sung by people associated with Rush Limbaugh - somebody who I do not feel is sensitive or wise on issues of race, it became something that I thought was mocking. Part of this is because of who did it and because I've seen them use racial mockery more to delight portions of their audience who want to laugh at us rather than with us. And then, once this thing hit the fan last year, especially after the dismal returns in November, I just am baffled that it was sent out again and that no apology was given.

If the song had been ttield "Barack-is-not-authentic (The Ballad of Al Sharpton)" it might have been much better received and not gotten any media attention whatsoever. But that would have violated a basic goal of the EIB - to get as much attention as possible by edging up to the line without doing enough to get in formal trouble. I think the goal is to both talk about political parady and at the same time, serve some candy to those who really want to say the other n-word and feel that they can't but get an emotional kick out of seeing Rush step up to the line. I know that people here can't relate to that, but there are people who are like that.

Talking about political parody, I thought up one myself that doesn't use terminology that offends any group of people.

(Sung to the tune of "Puff the Magic Dragon")
Chip will not be Chairman
Of the RNC
Because this year he walked into last year's controversy

Chip will not be Chairman
Of the RNC
Because he couldn't bring himself to just say "hey, folks, I'm sorry!"

It's not the first time lately
That the 'Pubs in Tennessee
Have found themselves in unnecessary controversy

This has grabbed the headlines
The topic of the day
No time to talk about family, life, or how much tax we pay

He may be a great guy
But that point is moot if true
Many people find the song hurtful and now they're mad at you

The GOP got four percent
Of the black vote a month ago
It seems like some are trying to figure out how low the stats can go

This whole sad episode
Harms the GOP
The only guy who's filled with glee is the President-to-be

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:01 pm 
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I'll try to close out my point here.

I'm not anti-Chip per se. I am angry that he didn't apologize and baffled that he would send that song out after the controversy it generated last year. I think he has severely damaged his prospects because he has brought unwanted and negative attention to the GOP. I also think the party is lucky that this didn't happen after he won the Chairmanship, as the effects would have been worse.

I think that the party would be very wise to stop trying to please El Rushbo.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:08 pm 
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Gee, I leave for a few days, and somebody at the RNC manages to screw up.

Whether we like it or not, Chip Saltsman blew away his chance at the chairman ship for the RNC. It will more than likely go to Blackwell now (not that I am complaining)

Calm down, and take a breather. Odds are, Mike Huckabee won't be damaged by this at all. Personally, if I were Mike Huckabee, I would lay low until this is blown over. Currently, this is all Chip's heat right now, but if Mike speaks up, people will be reminded that Chip was HIS campaign chairman.

Just my thoughts

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:41 pm 
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I also kind of hope that Mike lays low..

Mainly because we all have such high expectations for how he would respond, and it would be even more devastating if he said something in supporting Chip that could be spun as him not getting it either. :|

Remember there is prescedent... remember the don Young endorsement? Mike has taken a political two by four to the head for a friend before. If he chooses to take the 'cut him slack it was humor' approach as he has covered for SNL in the past, it could do serious damage to his reputation in the minority community.

Stay out of it Mike.. for your own sake.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:47 pm 
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http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=77682&catid=2
Read the comments at the above Arkansas news station link. Huckabee is being raked over the coals by the very people that voted for him. In my opinion, Chip was a huge reason Mike lost the primary. Saltsman is a poor planner and didn't manage the campaign efficiently. If Mike runs again in 2012, he needs a new campaign manager.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:08 pm 
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runninmason wrote:
http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=77682&catid=2
Read the comments at the above Arkansas news station link. Huckabee is being raked over the coals by the very people that voted for him. In my opinion, Chip was a huge reason Mike lost the primary. Saltsman is a poor planner and didn't manage the campaign efficiently. If Mike runs again in 2012, he needs a new campaign manager.


I wouldn't go that far.

Chip's campaign was one of the main reasons Mike was able to claw his way into the top tier. Mike's use of the internet and gimmicks like Chuck Norris were all Chip.

Let's not re write history because his mistake may be directing some heat Mike's way.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:10 pm 
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And can we get some pro-Mike comments going on the articles that try to play guilt by association for Mike on this?

Not anti-Chip.. but pro-Mike on race relations. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:21 pm 
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tpetersel wrote:
I also kind of hope that Mike lays low..

Mainly because we all have such high expectations for how he would respond, and it would be even more devastating if he said something in supporting Chip that could be spun as him not getting it either. :|

Remember there is prescedent... remember the don Young endorsement? Mike has taken a political two by four to the head for a friend before. If he chooses to take the 'cut him slack it was humor' approach as he has covered for SNL in the past, it could do serious damage to his reputation in the minority community.

Stay out of it Mike.. for your own sake.


I agree that Mike should lay low. He also needs to distance himself somewhat from Saltsman. If Mike runs again he needs to start with a clean slate. New campaign manager. New team. Let's learn from the mistakes of the past.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:44 pm 
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I totaly disagree he should lay low. He does not need to throw Chip under the bus or even unendorse him.But if he wants to be the future leader of the GOP, he needs to step up and say that he disapproves of things that cause division. It looks bad that Newt speaks up and that Huck says nothing.

Mrs. TVV, my co-donor, asked me what Huck has said in response and I have been embarrassed to have to say "nothing"

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:42 pm 
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My first reaction when I heard the parody on Rush Limbaugh was exactly the same as Verticon's. What on earth was Rush thinking? That parody--played over and over to the point of auditory exhaustion--is the main reason I got satellite radio for my car. When your only talk radio choices are Rush and Sean, something's gotta give. Unfortunately is says volumes that Republicans of high visibility--Rush and Chip are not the only ones between its first airing and now--are public appreciators of this kind of drelk. Makes me positively embarassed to be A.) a resident of the South and B.) a Conservative.

It seems lately Republicans only open their mouths to change feet. Even Mike Huckabee promoted a conspiracy theory on his second program. I am rooting for whichever candidate for RNC chair evidences the greatest commmon sense. I would prefer to belong to a party of adults rather than throwbacks to a frat house rush week.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:02 pm 
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Quote:
It seems lately Republicans only open their mouths to change feet.


Amen!

This thread has over 90 posts making it second only to a longstanding discussion thread on Gay Marriage in the number of posts in December.

Chip's actions are requiring very loooonnnngggg answers (many of them quite thoughtful and erudite). Rush and Hannity have hours to explain themselves every week. But in politics there is a basic truism:

A short answer beats a long answer.

A party leader must know this.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:13 pm 
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One bad thing about racial division is that there is so much that we do agree on. We ought to be getting everyone togther and taking on issues like abortion and the Fair Tax. Together, we can do it. Instad, we are arguing and people have hurt feelings and poitical collateral damage. It's a shame and a waste. And speaking of damage, here is more bad press.

Quote:
http://m.dnj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081228/NEWS01/812280321/1002&template=wapart


Hart: TN GOP in danger of political caricature

OK, I get it. Tennessee is a die-hard Red State. Picked W. over Al and Kerry, picked McCain overwhelmingly over Obama.

But it couldn't be, could it? Another Barack Obama 'parody' or 'satire' set to the tune of a popular song getting less than flattering widespread media attention — and the origin is the good ol' Volunteer State.

When I first saw the story, I of course had immediate flashback's to the unfortunate "Ode to Obama" satire penned and published in November by a local elementary school principal, during his down time, in which the nation's first black president-elect was juxtaposed with fly cribs and pimp pads ... to be sung to the tune of "The Jefferson's."

Now we have the former chairman of the state GOP, Chip Saltsman of Nashville, sending out Christmas gifts to Republican National Committee members that consist of a satirical CD in which one of the tunes is titled "Barack the Magic Negro" ... sung to the tune of "Puff the Magic Dragon."
Sprinkled throughout the tune, intended to be sung in the voice of the infamous Al Sharpton, are references to rapper Snoop Dogg, the 'hood, etc. Pull it up on YouTube or do a Google search. It's easy to find.

There is a back story. The origins of the "Magic Negro" phrase was an LA Times piece, written by a black writer, published in 2007 that was later picked up and parodied by Rush Limbaugh Show contributor Paul Shanklin.

But Saltsman, who by all accounts has been a highly successful GOP political operative, has aspirations of becoming the next chairman of the RNC, the face of the GOP so to speak. He says the party needs to head in a new direction.

Let's hope it isn't this one.

Earlier this year, you may recall that current state GOP Chairwoman Robin Smith came under fire for the party's insistence of using "Barack Hussein Obama" in online literature accusing him of not being supportive enough of the state of Israel, accompanied by a photo of Obama in Kenya robes and a turban.

Even as Sen. John McCain's campaign repudiated such tactics and the literature was toned down some, Smith was defiant. And now, after the current RNC chairman Mike Duncan chided Saltsman for the "Magic Negro" bit, Saltsman remains defiant, blaming the media.

What's more troubling to me is that the Red State of Tennessee is being systematically attached to stories about latent bigotry, racial insensitivity and cultural tone-deafness in a multi-cultural nation that is about to have its first black president.

If the Tennessee GOP isn't careful, it will find itself as the de facto face of an Old South mentality, an isolated political caricature that has few allies in a nation searching for unity during challenging times.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:43 pm 
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NJ Huck Supporter--I am also anxious to hear what Gov. Huckabee says about this. He has already blogged on HuckPac, mostly about his vacation and plans for his new radio show, but did not say anything about this.

I tried to post this on the HuckPac last night and it didn't come through, so now I am really puzzled as no one else has a post about this subject either. I hope and pray that all this will not do any harm to him. :?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:10 pm 
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We all know that Huckabee reads the Huckpac posts. But do you think he reads the Hucksarmy posts?

I would think that he would skim over the forum topics and read the ones that interest him. This would be one in particular that would catch his eye. By reading our thoughts, his biggest supporters, it would also give him a feel for how the general public and average republicans are thinking and feeling on this topic.

Hopefully he will respond to this "crisis" soon.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:29 pm 
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I am dismayed to have checked out comments left on one Iowa blog spot- what Chip has done has rubbed off on comments about Mike and now I just saw one about Janet. This story does not just have "legs"... it seems to have many feet and most not taking our party in a pleasant direction.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:46 pm 
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Those of you with contacts to Mike:he HAS to respond to this. I feel funny even feeling the need to make this request. He should have spoken up already.

It would be one thing if Chip hadn't been a close associate, if Huck hadn't endorsed Chip recently for RNC Chair, if Chip had quickly apologized or if Huck had no future aspirations to be the head of the GOP himself. But Chip has put everybody in a tough position and NOW is the time for leadership, not political ducking. It's actually past time. What do you think people think when they read that the GOP leadership is "divided" about the "magic negro" song???

Chip has also made life just a little harder for the few black Republicans who remain. How hard do you think it is to explain to people you belong to a group that is divided about this and that has some people hesitant to speak out and at least condemn the song??

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:09 pm 
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Quote:
Chip has also made life just a little harder for the few black Republicans who remain. How hard do you think it is to explain to people you belong to a group that is divided about this and that has some people hesitant to speak out and at least condemn the song??


This is heart breaking to me. I do hope Mike speaks out about this and that Chip himself disavows it.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:10 pm 
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from Redstate.com

http://www.redstate.com/

Quote:
Following Mike Duncan’s public statement, Ken Blackwell and Saul Anuzis have now broken their notable silence on “CD gate” — both statements coming over 24 hours after news of the story initially broke. Mirroring much of the public’s response, two of the three total candidates to offer comment have forcefully criticized Saltsman’s actions, yet he still refuses to apologize for the apparent gaffe.

When first cornered by The Hill’s Reid Wilson, Saltsman was forced to defend his gift as “good humored” political satire, but now we see the problem was not with his gift — and by proxy his judgment — but rather the media’s flawed interpretation.

Saltsman writes:

Quote:
Liberal Democrats and their allies in the media didn’t utter a word about David Ehrenstein’s irresponsible column in the Los Angeles Times last March. But now, of course, they’re shocked and appalled by its parody on the Rush Limbaugh Show.

I firmly believe that we must welcome all Americans into our party and that the road to Republican resurgence begins with unity, not division. But I know that our party leaders should stand up against the media’s double standards and refuse to pander to their desire for scandal.


Wow, apparently I was just overreacting. He believes we must welcome “all Americans,” even those ‘magic negroes’ into the party. That’s nice…

Saltsman’s response is typical post-gaffe political maneuvering: He knows he did wrong, but his ego — and campaign — can’t afford to admit it. You’ll note there was no degree of remorse in his statement, only the reactionary condemnation of media bias. Moreover, if Ehrenstein’s column was, as Saltsman claims, “irresponsible,” why then is Shanklin’s satire of the subject just good wholesome fun? Simple answer: It’s not.

Having spent the last year on the campaign trail, I’ll be the last person to argue the media is without bias, but the “victim card” doesn’t lend itself to Republican victories. Republicans cannot win elections by blackballing news outlets, crying foul, and crusading against “unfair” media portrayals.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:18 pm 
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IowaforHuckabee wrote:
TheValuesVoter wrote:
I do not understand what's wrong with saying "Barack the Magic NEGRO" is "not my idea of appropriate humor." Let me ask now - is this anyone here's idea of ideal humor?


No, I don't find it a bit funny. I'm offended and I'm not black. Not only do I not find it funny, it angers me.

Disclaimer: I also have never liked the song about Grandma being run over by a reindeer. :D

I have a huge sense of humor, but don't find a lot of things funny that even my brothers and sons do. I am often offended by what others find humorous and often times have to have the joke explained to me.


:wink: Am I ever glad to read that someone else can't stand the song, "Grandma Was Run Over by a Reindeer" :!:

Sometimes, I try to listen to Rush to keep up on what he is saying, etc. but when I heard the "Barack the Magic Negro" not long ago, I couldn't wait to switch stations. I guess it is considered humorous by some, but I have to think how it may feel to my black brothers and sisters. Even if some are very magnanimous and quick to forgive or put it aside as simply ludicrous, there are still hurts deep enough that we may not understand that cause great offense among some.

There is just no point in needlessly offending people, even if this was meant to be a private joke among RNC officials. And if Chip sent this to all the candidates for RNC chair, he offended at least a couple of blacks, no matter if they are gracious about it.

Reminds you of some wise words from the book of James:
"My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body. Indeed, we put bits in horses' mouths that they may obey us, and we turn their whole body...Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things. See how great a forest a little fire kindles! And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell. For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and creature of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by mankind. But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. my brethren, these things ought not to be so." (James 3:1-10)

The tenor of a leader is evident in his ability to be self-controlled. And the tongue is the first member of the body that needs to be controlled.

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