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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:44 pm 
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Neil Cavuto is showing his interview with Pastor Warren on Fox Business Channel tonight at 5pm Eastern. He will talk about issues such as stem cell research and talk about Pastor Warren's discussion with President Obama

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:02 pm 
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Sorry, that is 5pm Central time

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:19 pm 
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An interview with Rick Warren has appeared on the Christianity Today website.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/200 ... ml?start=1

One of the questions was about his comments on Larry King:

Quote:
You told Larry King last night, "During the whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement, never — never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop. 8 was going." But just before the election, you filmed a video for your congregation and said, "If you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8."

What I was trying to say is, those who obviously opposed my viewpoint on the biblical definition or the historical definition of marriage were trying to turn me into an anti-gay activist. The truth is, Proposition 8 was a two-year campaign in the state, and during those two years, I never said a word about it until the eight days before the election, and then I did make a video for my own people when they asked, "How should we vote on this?" It was a pastor talking to his own people. I've never said anything about it since. I don't know how you take one video newsletter to your own church and turn that into, all of a sudden I'm the poster boy for anti-gay marriage.

Obama called me the first week in December and asked me to do the invocation [prayer]. I made a commitment to say nothing to the press about it until after the inauguration. For nearly 40 days or 50 days — I called it 40 days of persecution (laughs) — I took all kinds of flak and never responded back.

The only response that I made was, I wrote an e-mail to all of the gay leaders that I know. I have many friends who are gay leaders whom we've worked with on AIDS campaign on health, poverty, and disease. The guys that I knew, I apologized to them.

In a Beliefnet interview, which was an hour long, Steve Waldman asked me about gay marriage. I said I believe marriage, that term, should be reserved for a man and a woman. I'm not saying same-sex couples don't love each other. I gave some examples of what I think should be considered to be marriage, like an older guy with a younger woman. Then [Waldman] said, "Are you saying that those are the same thing?" I said, "Oh sure." It made it sound like I was equating homosexuality with pedophilia and incest. I don't believe it, never have, and never would.

I don't believe that, but because I made a commitment to not say anything about it, people just ran with it. They were looking for a new poster boy. There's a lot of hatred out there. People don't realize that you don't have to agree with somebody to love them. I am commanded to love everybody. I can disagree with people, but I'm not free to not love them.



Yet another version of his stance on Prop 8. This is not exactly consistent with his statement on the Larry King youtube clip (listen at about :55 seconds). And I'm still not clear about why is he's apologizing to the gay community. Pastor Warren really needs to clarify what he really believes about this issue and what his actual position is on Prop 8.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:04 pm 
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davem wrote:
Southern Doc wrote:
The only thing that I can think of is that he may have had his charitable organization status directly challenged by anti Prop 8 forces. The law is in flux on how much direct advocacy can be made on a political issue by a 501 (3c) group/church without it losing its tax exemption.
Yet another example of how the FairTax would benefit everyone.


So being worried about his tax exempt status means he should lie about what he said publicly in support of Prop 8? :cry:

Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the SPIRIT, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

Titus 1:16 They claim to know GOD, but their actions disagree with Him
2 Timothy 3:5 People may put on an appearance of godliness but deny His power, and are therefore evil
2 Peter 2:1-2 False prophets and teachers cause many to follow
destructive heresies which would even deny the sovereignty of GOD.
Jude 4 Ungodly and condemned men have slipped in among us. They change the grace of our GOD to a license for immorality and deny JESUS CHRIST our sovereign LORD.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:07 pm 
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davem wrote:
Southern Doc wrote:
The only thing that I can think of is that he may have had his charitable organization status directly challenged by anti Prop 8 forces. The law is in flux on how much direct advocacy can be made on a political issue by a 501 (3c) group/church without it losing its tax exemption.
Yet another example of how the FairTax would benefit everyone.


So being worried about his tax exempt status means he should lie about what he said publicly in support of Prop 8? :cry:

Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the SPIRIT, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

Titus 1:16 They claim to know GOD, but their actions disagree with Him
2 Timothy 3:5 People may put on an appearance of godliness but deny His power, and are therefore evil
2 Peter 2:1-2 False prophets and teachers cause many to follow
destructive heresies which would even deny the sovereignty of GOD.
Jude 4 Ungodly and condemned men have slipped in among us. They change the grace of our GOD to a license for immorality and deny JESUS CHRIST our sovereign LORD.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:29 am 
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Quote:
davem wrote:
Southern Doc wrote:
The only thing that I can think of is that he may have had his charitable organization status directly challenged by anti Prop 8 forces. The law is in flux on how much direct advocacy can be made on a political issue by a 501 (3c) group/church without it losing its tax exemption.
Yet another example of how the FairTax would benefit everyone.


So being worried about his tax exempt status means he should lie about what he said publicly in support of Prop 8?

Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the SPIRIT, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

Titus 1:16 They claim to know GOD, but their actions disagree with Him
2 Timothy 3:5 People may put on an appearance of godliness but deny His power, and are therefore evil
2 Peter 2:1-2 False prophets and teachers cause many to follow
destructive heresies which would even deny the sovereignty of GOD.
Jude 4 Ungodly and condemned men have slipped in among us. They change the grace of our GOD to a license for immorality and deny JESUS CHRIST our sovereign LORD.



No one here has suggested that they approve of this action on the part of Mr. Warren. In fact the speculation that tax issues may have contributed to his choice was portrayed negatively:

Quote:
If that is what is going on, I am still very disappointed and sad that Mr. Warren has taken such a pragmatic course. We can not run from this fight. If we run we will only end up dying tired.


It is of far greater value to me to understand how and why people make bad/sinful/cowardly choices so that I might better avoid the same pitfalls. Very few people of Mr Warren's maturity in Christ set out to betray their beliefs anymore than David, Abraham, or Moses did. Understanding how and why men of long association with faith fall is a lesson for us all. It reminds us that we follow the "Son of Man" and not men. It also should make us all a little more humble about our own ability to live perfect lives.

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Oliver Wendell Holmes


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:52 pm 
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Southern Doc wrote:
It is of far greater value to me to understand how and why people make bad/sinful/cowardly choices so that I might better avoid the same pitfalls.


Definitely. And also just to develop a better understanding of life so that we can be more effective Christians.

Quote:
Very few people of Mr Warren's maturity in Christ set out to betray their beliefs anymore than David, Abraham, or Moses did.


I don't know that much about Mr. Warren, but I don't necessarily assume that high-profile Christians are mature in Christ. (I used to, but that was many life-lessons ago. ;)) In fact, it seems to me the higher the profile, the more likely you are to find a lack of depth. That's just my personal opinion, of course. In my own life, the most mature Christians I've encountered seem to be the "nobodies."

Quote:
Understanding how and why men of long association with faith fall is a lesson for us all. It reminds us that we follow the "Son of Man" and not men.


I agree. I think it also reminds us that we can't keep the Christian walk on our own. Without God's constant help, we're as likely to fall as anybody else.

Quote:
It also should make us all a little more humble about our own ability to live perfect lives.


True. But the Bible does hold spiritual leaders to a higher standard than "common folk," as we know from James 3:1.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:25 pm 
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From One News Now:

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Church/Default.aspx?id=483576

Quote:
Warren's 'backsliding' on marriage damages church
Jim Brown - OneNewsNow - 4/9/2009 7:00:00 AM

A Washington, DC, pastor and outspoken opponent of same-sex "marriage" says California mega-church pastor Rick Warren has done "tremendous damage" by apologizing for his support last fall of California's marriage protection amendment.

Rick Warren said Monday on CNN's Larry King Live that he has "never been and never will be" an "anti-gay marriage activist," and made a point to inform the program's host that he apologized to his homosexual friends for comments he made in October to his church in support of Proposition 8 in California.

Bishop Harry Jackson, Jr., with the High Impact Leadership Coalition says he was very disappointed with Warren's statements on CNN.

"This man who's been called the next Billy Graham, who I really respect with all my heart and love what he's doing in Africa, is falling into a trap that is emblematic of the problem that the entire church is facing in this generation," Jackson states. "And that is that we love the applause of men more than we love the work of God and the gospel. Jesus...told us that we are to honor God first, and that we are not to fear men but we're to fear God."

Jackson argues that Warren was "aiding and abetting a deception around what kind of stance the Bible calls Christians to take" by telling Larry King that opposing the recent Iowa Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage was "not his agenda."

"He is the author of The Purpose Driven Life book," Jackson notes, "and therefore people are going to think, 'Well, this is not on my mission -- it's not on my purpose. I don't have to stand for truth.'


"Therefore, his defection -- in terms of his stance on this issue -- [and] his backsliding on this issue, becomes of tremendous damage to the strength of the church in this position."

Warren told King on Monday that he "never once even gave an endorsement" during the Prop. 8 campaign. However, in late October -- just weeks before the November 4 election -- the pastor told his congregation: "Now let me say this really clearly: we support Proposition 8 -- and if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8." (Read a complete transcript of those comments)



Pastor Warren has not yet responded to a request from OneNewsNow for an interview.



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:38 pm 
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Debbie wrote:
One way to let Rick Warren know how you feel: return his books, cd's etc.

Anyone know where to get an address so I can return my Purpose Driven Life book to him, along with a nice letter explaining why?


Pathetic, cowardly, sad, are all terms which come to mind.

The Saddleback Church website has the address at the bottom: 1 Saddleback Parkway, Lake Forest, CA 92630

You might be on to something. Start a movement, including a website, dedicated to returning Rick Warren various publications to Saddleback.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:41 pm 
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"No more backbone than a chocolate eclair"

-- Theodore Roosevelt

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:15 pm 
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Here's the endorsement from October:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:45 pm 
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Wow! He comes out so strongly for Prop 8 in that video! It's mind boggling to compare his words then to what he's saying now! How disappointing to hear him stand so strongly then, and to hear him waffle now. Sad...


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:31 am 
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ColoradoMom4Huckabee wrote:
Wow! He comes out so strongly for Prop 8 in that video! It's mind boggling to compare his words then to what he's saying now! How disappointing to hear him stand so strongly then, and to hear him waffle now. Sad...



Depends on what the meaning of "activist", is. :?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:36 am 
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I was just watching FOX -- went by very fast -- but I thought they announced that Rick Warren would be on Huckabee this weekend. If so, that should be very interesting.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:41 am 
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voter wrote:
I was just watching FOX -- went by very fast -- but I thought they announced that Rick Warren would be on Huckabee this weekend. If so, that should be very interesting.



I hope Huckabee doesn't bail him out. But since they are friends, this might be Huck's way to let Warren finesse his previous statements.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:20 am 
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voter wrote:
I was just watching FOX -- went by very fast -- but I thought they announced that Rick Warren would be on Huckabee this weekend. If so, that should be very interesting.



I think I saw the same thing, but I thought it said he would be on Hannity

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:22 am 
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I'm sorry -- I think I was wrong about Warren and Huckabee. At 9:00 p.m. on Saturday they are having a special easter presentation with Rick Warren (they call it a fox presentation, so I am not sure who is handling it), but it is not Huckabee at 8:00.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:28 am 
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Sorry again for being so confusing. If you look at the Saturday and Sunday shows, on Saturday at 8:00 Huckabee has pro life Jill Ireland; at 9:00 there is a fox special presentation with Rick Warren celebrating Easter; then, on Sunday at 8:00 Huckabee still has Jill Ireland but adds Rick Warren. You know, lately, he has been having a different segment on Sunday from Saturday. If we are to believe this, then Warren is on Huckabees' show on Easter Sunday at 8:00 (not on Saturday's show at 8:00) but Warren is also part of a special presentation on Saturday at 9:00.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:32 am 
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You'd really think people would search youtube for damning counter-examples when they go to an interview these days ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:19 am 
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This is precisely why it's dangerous to follow any man....as humans we are all inevitable creatures of the fallen nature. Jesus alone.


Michael


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