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 Post subject: Re: Pirates!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:27 pm 
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Dave in SC wrote:
As I stated in my earlier posts, the pirates had the gall to attack because we have a weak and incompetent President. I believe we should have used force much earlier.


Did you hear that at one point, the Captain jumped out of the boat and began to swim for it, giving the SEALs a clear shot at blowing the lifeboat out of the world? But the pirates had a chance to recover, and they began shooting at the captain and in the air, so he swam back to the pirates (and captivity). :x

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:28 pm 
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TheValuesVoter wrote:
Our amazing military deserve a standing applause from all of us. Go, Navy SEALS!!! I am glad that the President made the right decision in authorizing the use of force. Hopefully, those guys will think twice before they go near anything that has a U.S. Flag on it in the future. I pity the fool who wants to take on our armed forces. Awesome story!!


The President made the right call. He did his job by allowing the military professionals to carry out this mission.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:32 pm 
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OK, it is fine to rely on your gut if you want.

I give the Navy Seals and the captain primary credit here, of course. However, as you were criticizing the President's decisions you should own up when it turns out he turned out right. Otherwise others will see this (myself included) as further proof of an irrational dislike. This leads me to think less of other, perhaps legitimate, criticisms.

This is what separates rational criticism of O'Reily which I respect but often disagree with, from the ravings of someone like Hannity or *shudder* Glenn Beck.

I urge you to consider that most of what has been written on this post, had it been written on Salon or some lefty site during the Bush administration, would have been lambasted as unpatriotic. I don't mean to be partisan here, had the same situation happened during the Bush administration the left would have been critical. I'm just saying that in the interests of horizontal politics, don't play this game.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:48 pm 
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voter wrote:
We will never know what happened, and the media will always give Obama the best press. But I think it is strange that the Navy seals would have waited FOUR days, with a tiny lifeboat drifting in the WATER -- with the captain in a LIFEBOAT with a gun pointed at his back -- waited four days, and never made a move. After all, they knew how to shoot on Thursday just as well as they did on Sunday.
FYI the lifeboat is completely enclosed. I think this is a photo of it:

Image
(from http://www.wbz.com/Somali-pirates-vow-t ... IO/4192793)

You would not want to just start shooting into the boat without knowing who or what you are going to hit.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:55 pm 
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As I said, we will never know. We only know how it turned out -- thankfully, the captain was returned safely. But four days seems to me very long to determine where and when and who to shoot. It was reported several times on Sunday that the lifeboat was only 40 miles from shore -- and if it had made it safely to shore that would have made a rescue attempt extremely difficult.

If it was the decision of the seals to wait -- then so be it -- I would never question their expertise -- and then I would be the first to offer an apology to President Obama.

But since I don't know -- and the Obama administration has been extremely disappointing to me in many areas -- I have my suspicions.

And frankly President Obama owes many more apologies to those of us who truly gave him the benefit of the doubt in the beginning.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:19 pm 
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MacGyver wrote:
OK, it is fine to rely on your gut if you want.

I give the Navy Seals and the captain primary credit here, of course. However, as you were criticizing the President's decisions you should own up when it turns out he turned out right. Otherwise others will see this (myself included) as further proof of an irrational dislike. This leads me to think less of other, perhaps legitimate, criticisms.

This is what separates rational criticism of O'Reily which I respect but often disagree with, from the ravings of someone like Hannity or *shudder* Glenn Beck.

I urge you to consider that most of what has been written on this post, had it been written on Salon or some lefty site during the Bush administration, would have been lambasted as unpatriotic. I don't mean to be partisan here, had the same situation happened during the Bush administration the left would have been critical. I'm just saying that in the interests of horizontal politics, don't play this game.


I agree with you. My philosophy is to criticize when someone does the wrong thing (as Obama has done with abortion, taxes, and spending). Give them credit when they do the right thing. Otherwise, you can probably expect for people to think that the criticism is fanatical.

The left literally criticized almost everything that President Bush did. But Bush did more than probably any President before him to give money to AIDS suffering nations, showed incredible restraint during the month between the 911 attacks and the invasion of Afghanistan (a war that even most liberals agree with) and has just been a total class act in the way that he's handled the transition of power and his post-Presidency - something that even his critics would grudgingly acknowledge. I don't know about you, but when I heard the Michael Moore types who couldn't utter a curse word without the word "Bush" preceeding or following it, I just sort of prayed for them, tuned them out and hoped they could deal with their unresolved issues from childhood. I don't want to sound like them (even though I unfortunately do when the topic of Romney comes up. I need prayer too).

Just like there is much to criticize about Obama, there was a lot to criticize about President Clinton. But he didn't get everything wrong. He actually managed to decrease the federal defecit every single year he was in office until it was wiped out and then increased the surplus every year until the end of his term. He was a moral nightmare, but I think that there are a lot of things he got wrong and some things he got right. I think the balanced thing to do is to acknowledge both - for everybody.

Obama is in my opinion making some very poor mistakes, especially in terms of his opposition to human life, his spending binge which is much more severe than anything Bush ever did, his lack of committment to the traditional family and his love of taxes. I'll criticize him for all of that - and will criticize him as he does anything like that in the future. He deserves the criticism. But when he makes a right call, as every President sometimes does (unless your name is James Buchanan) I'm not going to critizize him for that. I also don't believe that the warships would have been staring down the lifeboat had the President not authorized the military to move there, which probably happened several days beforehand.

Thank God for the safe return of the captain, a good call made by the President, and the fact that every U.S. President has the benefit of having the greatest military force in the history of the world to execute these types of heroic feats all the time and to make it look easy. Hooah!

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:35 pm 
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I have to say that I'm awfully impressed by the skill of the SEAL team. Three shots ... three dead Pirates ... at night ... from the water. Wow.

I've also been mulling over since yesterday ... what did those foolish Pirates think was going to happen? They're on a 21 foot lifeboat or something. Facing off against a warship. I guess they never heard of the expression "do the math?"

If they had harmed the captain, they would have met the same fate except for the fact that their demise might have been accompanied by prettier colors (ker-boom!) That wasn't an option. And did they really think that they were going to get a getaway boat past our naval forces and get to land? What were they thinking? Were they really thinking they'd outdo the world's best Navy?

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:30 pm 
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TheValuesVoter wrote:
Just like there is much to criticize about Obama, there was a lot to criticize about President Clinton. But he didn't get everything wrong. He actually managed to decrease the federal defecit every single year he was in office until it was wiped out and then increased the surplus every year until the end of his term. He was a moral nightmare, but I think that there are a lot of things he got wrong and some things he got right. I think the balanced thing to do is to acknowledge both - for everybody.


Clinton takes (and gets) credit for balancing the budget and reducing the deficit. But he deserves credit for neither. The reason he offered balanced budgets was because the Gingrich revolution (emboldened by the Congressional freshman class of '94) and the Contract with America forced him to, since the GOP controlled Congress. The only thing he did right was to sign the budgets and not veto them. He caved to the inevitable, and then his spin machine worked a friendly media to make him the hero. Even at the time, we asked ourselves, "Why do the Republicans remain silent and let him get away with that??!?"

And the reason the deficit was reduced was because private industry and Wall Street were booming, which resulted in enormous tax revenues. Taxes were pouring in to the Treasury which made it easier to eliminate the deficit.

However, I DO fault George W. Bush and the Republican congress for then spending us into a huge deficit again. *sigh*

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:59 pm 
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MacGyver wrote:
Navy seals? Into a lifeboat? Yeah, no problem making that extraction. Would never see it coming!

I beg to differ that Somalians care who our President is. Not that these pirates are not very coordinated...but these people most likely cannot even read a newspaper, and you think they can do a analysis on the potential reactions of a different administrations? They live in a country with zero opportunities, they want the $$.

And I assure you...Iraq makes everyone that much more certain that we won't do anything next time because we now have no military. You can use other justifications, but that one doesn't fly.

Respect our President, dealing with pirates has been a problem for the US since the our founding, please don't act like it reflects on Obama somehow.

Granted the pirates were not aware they were attacking a US ship. But the rest of the world is watching and they will see us as weak and, I echo another, that we have weak leadership.

Sorry I respectfully have to disagree with you: I will respect the office of president but cannot respect the man in it right now. How do you respect a do nothing who allows our Constitution to be trampled on. Kills babies! Oh sure he listens and this lulls some people into thinking he cares and/or is contemplating action but most of the time it really only means he has no opinion nor solutions of his own. Stalling is what I call it. He is brilliant in seduction and deception and campaigning but in leadership, he is worthless. Or worse, he is destructive.

Has anyone given any thought to the military being disgruntled with the president? The implications? Can you go into a life or death situation for someone you cannot respect, cannot believe in, cannot trust? This may have more serious implications than just cutting the budget for the military. I understand that military persons are there for various reasons, to protect the country but the commander in chief has a major influence on the esprit de corps of the military ranks.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:56 pm 
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I wondered about the silence from the White House in the beginning, and I also disagree, of course, with the president on so much....

But I've decided to commend the president - in the same breath that I immediately praise the bravery of the SEALS, the heroism of the captain, and - above all - the grace of God in this.

In doing so, I had a very ardent supporter of the president thank me. I don't know if it will make a difference in the future - especially in 2012! - but I feel I can extend that courtesy (of commending the president) without gushing. Even that little bit can be appreciated. I know I felt that way when someone who disagreed with President Bush acknowledged something they felt was good or right.

If someone can't go so far as to commend him, I get it, but I'd hold off on the big criticism for the big stuff. I heard Hannity tonight going after the president for this - and even Bernie Goldberg was like 'I wrote Slobbering Love Affair, and I can't agree with you on this.'

Just my .02 :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:33 pm 
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Quote:
If someone can't go so far as to commend him, I get it, but I'd hold off on the big criticism for the big stuff. I heard Hannity tonight going after the president for this - and even Bernie Goldberg was like 'I wrote Slobbering Love Affair, and I can't agree with you on this.'


I agree. I don't like giving Obama credit, but when he makes a good decision, that should be acknowledged. As for Hannity, he is really becoming tedious.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:46 pm 
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I respect everyone's position and sentiments. I do think that for anyone of either political side, when we criticize someone all the time, it makes it harder for people to hear them when they make the most important criticisms, because all people hear is criticism and perceived bitterness. I've had family members complain to me recently that "all Republicans do these day is attack Obama." Like I said earlier, there are a lot of very legitimate reasons to criticize the President's policies in other areas. But when anyone criticizes anyone all the time, people tune them out and don't pay special attention when they cry "wolf!" for real. Or when they cry "he's going to allow more abortions to occur if this law passes!" I think it's wise to criticize when needed and not when it's not needed.

Newt Gingrich gave the President credit for making the right decision and allowing our military to do their job and save this guy's life. From my point again, I think it was a good call, that there definitely was a call (to allow the military to take action) and some good-old U.S. Armed Forces heroism. Pirates may talk a lot but they are likely to remember that we have SEAL teams that can take them out just as easily as they can threaten one of our people, no matter where they are. I feel good about how this ended and have nothing to complain about from our side.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:49 pm 
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I agree Obama deserves credit for finally making the right decision.

I have my own opinions based on what I heard took place last week from an actual Navy Seal but I guess it really doesn't matter now because thankfully it turned out good. Obama finally did give the okay for force if the captain was in imminent danger and since he was, we do not have to deal with what would have happened if they reached shore.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:53 am 
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Agree on both points. My disappointment with certain views could have been expressed better.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:59 am 
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MacGyver wrote:
Go ahead and disagree, just preface all future comments with this disclaimer, "The President and I have differing views on abortion and therefore I believe in all cases he is wrong. Thus, when I appear to make a comment on an issue other than abortion, please disregard my opinion. I apologize for any misunderstanding this may cause."


IMHO, the tone of your comment is not in keeping with the usual spirit here at HucksArmy, which is one of warm and friendly, respectful discourse.

Quote:
Also, in what world does an $20 billion dollar increase in military spending qualify as a spending cut? Your starting to sound like Bush-esque 'small government'. :roll: I find it hard to believe that re-allocated funding to the sorts of wars we have been fighting in the last 40 years has done more to demoralize the military than starting and unjust and unnecessary war and forcing our fighting men and women into multiple terms of duty.


I respectfully disagree about whether "this war" was unjust OR unnecessary, but am too exhausted from participating today's Tea Party in the freezing rain to detail why. And speaking of exhaustion, the topic of the war on terror, the actions in Iraq, and in Afghanistan, have been exhaustively covered elsewhere, both here on HucksArmy.com and elsewhere. I wonder if this discussion on this thread is beginning to go off the original topic?

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:12 pm 
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http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=95451


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:36 pm 
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tag wrote:

Interesting...

It seems that there was more to this than meets the eye.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:27 pm 
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Mrs. P wrote:
tag wrote:

Interesting...

It seems that there was more to this than meets the eye.

There always is, always.

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