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 Post subject: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:29 pm 
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Happy New Year, everybody!!

I continue to be amazed at all the Fiscal Cliff mess. I am waiting for the U.S. Credit Rating to be lowered again at any time. I hope the Congress passes the legislation and just gets us at least temporarily out of this stalemate. Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:19 pm 
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I know this won't be popular, but seriously...

The senate deal was a good deal, and the pain induced on the population is just too large. The people elected Obama. I hate it, you hate it, we all hate it - but they did. We have to fight his policies, but let's not repeat the mistakes of the 1990's.

This way, we just look childish.



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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:57 pm 
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I don't think I'll be able to vote for anyone who voted "no" to this should they seek higher office. At some point, a person in leadership has to be able to weigh the consequences of their actions and understand the ramifications of grandstanding. If this vote fails, almost all taxpayers will see their taxes go up. And our nation's credit rating will almost definitely go down. This is a circus show and whatever we've got going on in Washington, it's broken on both sides. Too many people want to be popular with their "side" instead of doing what's right for the country.

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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:58 am 
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TheValuesVoter wrote:
I don't think I'll be able to vote for anyone who voted "no" to this should they seek higher office. At some point, a person in leadership has to be able to weigh the consequences of their actions and understand the ramifications of grandstanding. If this vote fails, almost all taxpayers will see their taxes go up. And our nation's credit rating will almost definitely go down. This is a circus show and whatever we've got going on in Washington, it's broken on both sides. Too many people want to be popular with their "side" instead of doing what's right for the country.


Hi Mr. Values. Truely, you've got to be kidding me! :floor
It is my opinion that B.O. just hijacked the Republican House. I am so proud that my Rep voted "NO"! $4,000,000,000,000.00 (Trillion!) more in debt! Is there no more conscience in America? Do you have one? Where is the money gonna come from.

I would never vote for someone that voted for the destrustion of America as we know it. And those who voted "YES" just "sold" themselves for "thirty pieces of Silver".

We shall see how far that gets them...Judas didn't too far.

What a fools they are!

Peter


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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:55 pm 
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Does anyone have a list of who voted which way?

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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:49 pm 
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Patriot4America wrote:
TheValuesVoter wrote:
I don't think I'll be able to vote for anyone who voted "no" to this should they seek higher office. At some point, a person in leadership has to be able to weigh the consequences of their actions and understand the ramifications of grandstanding. If this vote fails, almost all taxpayers will see their taxes go up. And our nation's credit rating will almost definitely go down. This is a circus show and whatever we've got going on in Washington, it's broken on both sides. Too many people want to be popular with their "side" instead of doing what's right for the country.


Hi Mr. Values. Truely, you've got to be kidding me! :floor
It is my opinion that B.O. just hijacked the Republican House. I am so proud that my Rep voted "NO"! $4,000,000,000,000.00 (Trillion!) more in debt! Is there no more conscience in America? Do you have one? Where is the money gonna come from.

I would never vote for someone that voted for the destrustion of America as we know it. And those who voted "YES" just "sold" themselves for "thirty pieces of Silver".

We shall see how far that gets them...Judas didn't too far.

What a fools they are!

Peter


My position is pretty simple. Those who voted "no" voted to, in effect, raise everybody's taxes. The Bush tax cuts expired and everyone would have faced significant tax increases if the bill had not been passed. Also, the gridlock in DC already led directly to one credit downgrade for the U.S. And, if the lawmakers and the President cannot reach some agreements quickly, we will face a second, more significant credit downgrade, one that would eventually likely have a huge negative effect for our currency.

I agree we need to cut spending - dramatically. But whatever happens, we cannot make taxes increase, the military budget cut and the credit rating harmed. What part of this logic do you disagree with?

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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:02 pm 
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Huckabeliever wrote:
Does anyone have a list of who voted which way?


Hi there Huckabeliever. I do have a link. It is

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll659.xml

God Bless,

Peter


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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:29 pm 
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Mr Values, really now.

First, thank you for "accidentally" liking my post. I appreciciate it. To be truthfull, I thought your response to my post was cynical, kinda like B.O. himself.
I didn't accidentally like your post...in fact, I saw through it.

I am so thankful that Gov. Huckabee posted a post on Huck-PAC. Gov. H. seemed pretty proud of all the Huck-PAC endorsed candidates that voted "NO", except for two. Why els would he finaly post something after almost two long months of nothing. Actually, I feared that he was gonna let the site die off :cry:

In all, Mr. Values, I have seen your posts on here, read many of them...even about Mr. Martin. I would, in my opinion, examine your "Values" and how you speak to others. Believe this truth, "Actions speak louder than words", but your words are actions on a forum such as this.

God Bless you,

Peter


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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:57 pm 
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Patriot4America wrote:
Mr Values, really now.

First, thank you for "accidentally" liking my post. I appreciciate it. To be truthfull, I thought your response to my post was cynical, kinda like B.O. himself.
I didn't accidentally like your post...in fact, I saw through it.

I am so thankful that Gov. Huckabee posted a post on Huck-PAC. Gov. H. seemed pretty proud of all the Huck-PAC endorsed candidates that voted "NO", except for two. Why els would he finaly post something after almost two long months of nothing. Actually, I feared that he was gonna let the site die off :cry:

In all, Mr. Values, I have seen your posts on here, read many of them...even about Mr. Martin. I would, in my opinion, examine your "Values" and how you speak to others. Believe this truth, "Actions speak louder than words", but your words are actions on a forum such as this.

God Bless you,

Peter


I was not trying to be cynical in saying that I accidentally liked your post. I may have misread your response to me but it had seemed that you were attacking my position and had somewhat of a personal tone in your response. And so, of course it was not my intention to like that post as I had read it. I am sorry if my response sounded rude - I was also trying to pound out a quick response on my cell phone.

And my point was simply this: what would have been the alternative to voting yes on the bill? I may be wrong but I saw several probabilities there. The first was the certainty that all taxes for almost everyone would revert to the pre-2001 levels. I thought that was a very negative thing. The second is that I have a serious fear that the nation's credit rating will drop as the result of another cliffhanger and all the uncertainty that it brought. I also blame all of Washington, the President as well as Congress, for waiting so long to address this issue. But I have been particularly frustrated with the inability of Congress to get almost anything done.

Please accept my apology if I did something to offend you personally. Let's have a discussion about why you think a no vote was appropriate. I would like to understand a perspective that is different from mine and maybe we can both gain some appreciation from hearing a different point of view.

God Bless You as well!

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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:20 pm 
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Patriot4America wrote:
Mr Values, really now.

First, thank you for "accidentally" liking my post. I appreciciate it. To be truthfull, I thought your response to my post was cynical, kinda like B.O. himself.
I didn't accidentally like your post...in fact, I saw through it.

In all, Mr. Values, I have seen your posts on here, read many of them...even about Mr. Martin. I would, in my opinion, examine your "Values" and how you speak to others. Believe this truth, "Actions speak louder than words", but your words are actions on a forum such as this.



"Saw through it"? What you actually saw was me quickly reading a post on my phone, hitting the Like button when I meant to hit the quote button and then acknowledging that mistake in the actual response.

Which "Mr. Martin" are you referring to and what in particular did I say? I try very hard to be polite to other posters and we've had a generally civil tone on this forum for the past four years. A number of us do have strong feelings on individual issues - many of us agree on most issues and seem to have similar "values" on issues such as the sanctity of life, sanctity of marriage and our choice of Huckabee as the best person to lead America. But having strong opinions and expressing them with strong words of frustration has certainly always been appropriate in this and most other forums.

The good thing is that we usually are able to start off a conversation with people having different viewpoints and take the time to express why we feel a certain way. In the end, more often than not, the end result is that people are able to gain an appreciation for other points of view. And we're usually able to do that without attacking or belittling each other.

So, again, if I did something to offend you personally, that was definitely not my intention. But I'd love to have a conversation about this or any other topic so that maybe we can clear the air and understand each other's point of view.

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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:07 am 
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Tsk, tsk, tsk, Mr. Values. Now I would actually say, in my opinion, that you are tryimg to "gaslight" me...also, in my opinion, B.O. does a very good job at that to the American people.

Just my thoughts,

Peter


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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:15 am 
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Patriot4America wrote:
Tsk, tsk, tsk, Mr. Values. Now I would actually say, in my opinion, that you are tryimg to "gaslight" me...also, in my opinion, B.O. does a very good job at that to the American people.

Just my thoughts,

Peter


I have no idea at all what you're talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:09 am 
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TheValuesVoter wrote:
Patriot4America wrote:
Tsk, tsk, tsk, Mr. Values. Now I would actually say, in my opinion, that you are tryimg to "gaslight" me...also, in my opinion, B.O. does a very good job at that to the American people.

Just my thoughts,

Peter


"I have no idea at all what you're talking about."


Sound familiar anyone?

Peter


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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:32 am 
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Patriot4America wrote:
TheValuesVoter wrote:
Patriot4America wrote:
Tsk, tsk, tsk, Mr. Values. Now I would actually say, in my opinion, that you are tryimg to "gaslight" me...also, in my opinion, B.O. does a very good job at that to the American people.

Just my thoughts,

Peter


"I have no idea at all what you're talking about."


Sound familiar anyone?

Peter


No, this does not sound familiar. TVV has been one of the best poster on HA for the last 4 years. I have no idea why you are making this personal, but knock it off. TVV has been very patient in responding to you which I would encourage you to follow suit.

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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:27 am 
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Patriot4America wrote:
Hey Ken, thanks for the reply.

No. I won't knock it off.

In my opinion, I have seen this Mr. "Values" take it to the extreme with "Just" folks. Also in my opinion, Mr. Values needs to do his homework before he opens his mouth. In my opinion, he speaks as a fool. Always looking to be right...but once repimanded, changes his story to fit the script. Almost exactly like B.O. I like that word, reprimand. Look it up.

So, Ken, no, I "won't knock it off".

Best wishies,

Peter


Again, I have no idea why you are taking up a personal crusade against me and at this point I no longer really care. But, with respect to the comments that I make on various issues on this site, I also won't knock it off. I will continue to speak my mind and talk about the issues which come to my mind. But, quite unlike the way you are conducting yourself in this discussion, I will do it with class and with respect for other people. I think it is possible to make your point and speak your mind without attacking others. This is the way many of us have functioned here for four years and it's the way we will continue to function, regardless of how you choose to conduct yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:53 am 
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As I said in the beginning, Mr Values, you need to check you own values. Really,your not gonna bully me around with your empty words.

And for sure, you are not gonna "gaslight" me. If you try to "Gaslight" anyone els...I WILL point it out.

I hope in future posts that you claim that what you say is your opinion...unless of coarse you can prove it.

Hope the next convo goes better :-)

Peter


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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:17 am 
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Patriot4America wrote:
As I said in the beginning, Mr Values, you need to check you own values. Really,your not gonna bully me around with your empty words.

And for sure, you are not gonna "gaslight" me. If you try to "Gaslight" anyone els...I WILL point it out.

I hope in future posts that you claim that what you say is your opinion...unless of coarse you can prove it.

Hope the next convo goes better :-)

Peter


"Bully you around?" Sir, I have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about. I also don't really know what you are referring to by "gaslight."

This whole exchange is pretty weird and I really don't understand it. Anyway, I hope you have a nice day.

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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:07 pm 
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Wow! I was surprised to come on here after being away for a while and see this thread. Seriously, attacking TVV for his posts? He is one of the most civil posters on here. He may disagree, but he is always respectful about it and usually will back it up with his understanding of why he feels the way he does.

Peter, I'm surprised (and disappointed) at you. It's almost like your account has been hacked and someone else has taken over your identity and is posting for you. Please say it is so. This kind of tone doesn't sound like you at all and I hope very much that you were just having a bad spell.



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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:59 pm 
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IowaforHuckabee wrote:
Wow! I was surprised to come on here after being away for a while and see this thread. Seriously, attacking TVV for his posts? He is one of the most civil posters on here. He may disagree, but he is always respectful about it and usually will back it up with his understanding of why he feels the way he does.

Peter, I'm surprised (and disappointed) at you. It's almost like your account has been hacked and someone else has taken over your identity and is posting for you. Please say it is so. This kind of tone doesn't sound like you at all and I hope very much that you were just having a bad spell.


Totally agree, Iowa. Something's not right here. I'm truly hoping Peter's account was hacked.

TVV and Ken, thanks for being so civil to whoever-this-is. You get the Huckabee award :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Fiscal Cliff
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:18 pm 
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I suppose this thread is as good as any to start talking about the debt ceiling.

I'm thinking of writing a blog post and analyse, as an economist, whether it would be smart for the US to default (I write for caffeinated thoughts). I don't think we're quite at that point yet, but if the choice is between 1) raising the debt ceiling without any significant spending cuts or 2) defaulting... well, then I prefer the second option.

Same thing with the new budget. Though I'm not a fan of government shutdowns so maybe the debt ceiling is a better fight to take (a shutdown won't do much to reduce government debt and will inevitably be blamed on Republicans).


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