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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:16 pm 
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Hello,

It's been a long time since I've posted on Hucksarmy. In the past few years I've gotten involved in various other conservative circles but I'm beginning to think Mike Huckabee might be our country's only hope. I wrote a post about this topic on my personal political blog and a friend and fellow Hucksarmy contributer asked me to post about it here. I just wanted to get people's feedback on this issue and if you think the Governor is of my way of thinking on this and if you guys agree...

The target of my post is Dr. Charles Murray, author of the junk science book "The Bell Curve" which explicitly states that blacks and latinos are genetically inferior to whites. As a long time conservative Latino voter, I was very disturbed to find out that Dr. Murray is an extremely prominent figure among the American right, and his funders, the Bradley Foundation, have been giving millions of dollars in grants to mainstream conservative causes to promote Dr. Murray's ideas.

In the social conservative movement, we as pro-lifers, often draw comparisons to the abortion movement with the eugenics movement. Dr. Murray's works drew heavily on research from the Nazi linked Pioneer Foundation which advocates for eugenics to "purify" society. At first I tried to think that Dr. Murray's views must be out of the mainstream, and fringe, but it's become disturbingly apparent to me that his views are in fact VERY mainstream.

He has single handily shaped the "welfare" debate in this country, which is not inherently a bad thing, but it's the fact that rather than focusing on socio-economics, Dr. Murray and his long list of policy accomplishments have not been rooted in figuring out the socio-economic roots of poverty amongst minorities (ironically he leaves out poor white areas of America) but in slashing welfare because it is pointless because minorities are just "genetically dumber."

His other main theory is that more than 50% of Americans are simply too genetically stupid to go to college and that only his selective group of "cognitive elites" should be allowed to attend college and advance in society...

I was wondering what y'alls thoughts in this are? Do you think these are issues that Gov. Huckabee would speak out against?

Thanks!

-Dan


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:28 pm 
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I'm sure the governor doesn't believe whites are genetically superior.

I haven't read the book, but I don't think it's as clear-cut as you put it. Apparently in the introduction the authors wrote, "The debate about whether and how much genes and environment have to do with ethnic differences remains unresolved." That seems a far cry from, "explicitly [stating] that blacks and latinos are genetically inferior to whites," as you put it. I doubt an institution in Guatemala would have granted him an honorary doctorate (a little research has revealed this fact to me) if his work was as you've described it.

I also wouldn't say Charles Murray is extremely prominent on the right today. Certainly his stuff was much discussed in the 80s and 90s, but your post is the first I've heard of him in years.

_________________
THE TIMES are nightfall, look, their light grows less;
The times are winter, watch, a world undone:
They waste, they wither worse; they as they run
Or bring more or more blazon man’s distress.
And I not help. Nor word now of success:
All is from wreck, here, there, to rescue one—
Work which to see scarce so much as begun
Makes welcome death, does dear forgetfulness.
Or what is else? There is your world within.
There rid the dragons, root out there the sin.
Your will is law in that small commonweal…
G.M. Hopkins.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:33 pm 
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Miserere wrote:
I'm sure the governor doesn't believe whites are genetically superior.

I haven't read the book, but I don't think it's as clear-cut as you put it. Apparently in the introduction the authors wrote, "The debate about whether and how much genes and environment have to do with ethnic differences remains unresolved." That seems a far cry from, "explicitly [stating] that blacks and latinos are genetically inferior to whites," as you put it. I doubt an institution in Guatemala would have granted him an honorary doctorate (a little research has revealed this fact to me) if his work was as you've described it.

I also wouldn't say Charles Murray is extremely prominent on the right today. Certainly his stuff was much discussed in the 80s and 90s, but your post is the first I've heard of him in years.


Thanks for the reply. Despite his introduction, the thirteenth chapter goes into deep depth involving genetics, and the very fact that his work is based on Pioneer Fund data is slightly telling...

His articles still frequently receive glowing praise in the National Review, AEI speeches. Anyways, this is just my take on it, but it's been something that's really bothering me...


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:46 pm 
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GBVrallyCI wrote:
Miserere wrote:
I'm sure the governor doesn't believe whites are genetically superior.

I haven't read the book, but I don't think it's as clear-cut as you put it. Apparently in the introduction the authors wrote, "The debate about whether and how much genes and environment have to do with ethnic differences remains unresolved." That seems a far cry from, "explicitly [stating] that blacks and latinos are genetically inferior to whites," as you put it. I doubt an institution in Guatemala would have granted him an honorary doctorate (a little research has revealed this fact to me) if his work was as you've described it.

I also wouldn't say Charles Murray is extremely prominent on the right today. Certainly his stuff was much discussed in the 80s and 90s, but your post is the first I've heard of him in years.


Thanks for the reply. Despite his introduction, the thirteenth chapter goes into deep depth involving genetics, and the very fact that his work is based on Pioneer Fund data is slightly telling...

His articles still frequently receive glowing praise in the National Review, AEI speeches. Anyways, this is just my take on it, but it's been something that's really bothering me...


That's understandable. I'll leave that discussion to someone who might know more about Murray.

Speaking more generally, however, I have to say that I think conservatives in practice believe in the equality of the races more than the left. Case in point is affirmative action. I believe hispanics, blacks and others can compete against whites, and whites can compete against asians, because intellectual differences/virtue/hard work isn't racially based. Now, I'm not someone who thinks people are all equal and have the same capacities. But the differences aren't explained by race.

It seems to me that the only reason you'd support affirmative action is if you think minorities aren't smart enough to compete on their own.

_________________
THE TIMES are nightfall, look, their light grows less;
The times are winter, watch, a world undone:
They waste, they wither worse; they as they run
Or bring more or more blazon man’s distress.
And I not help. Nor word now of success:
All is from wreck, here, there, to rescue one—
Work which to see scarce so much as begun
Makes welcome death, does dear forgetfulness.
Or what is else? There is your world within.
There rid the dragons, root out there the sin.
Your will is law in that small commonweal…
G.M. Hopkins.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 2:48 pm 
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We know how Governor Huckabee stresses the value and importance of every single life.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 4:45 pm 
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I personally struggle with the term "race". As we are all a part of the human race. Our differences are cultural. The term ethnicity is more appropriate.

Our differences are just that, differences. There is one who is Good, the rest have fallen short.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 6:13 pm 
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We are all individuals. Group-think is for collectivists.
If we have individual liberty, everyone has liberty.
They will constantly pit one group against another,
at one time or another promising each group it's very own "bennies".
This only empowers the state, never the people.
This whole left-right, Republican-Democrat paradigm
is effectively used to manipulate everyone in promoting their
mostly globalist agenda.

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You say "Conspiracy Theorist"?? Call me Agenda Analyst.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:25 pm 
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kdscott wrote:
I personally struggle with the term "race". As we are all a part of the human race. Our differences are cultural. The term ethnicity is more appropriate.

Our differences are just that, differences. There is one who is Good, the rest have fallen short.


I agree. There is only one race, the human race, and we are all derived from a single issue of blood (Acts 18:26)

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 10:15 pm 
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GBVrallyCI wrote:
Hello,

It's been a long time since I've posted on Hucksarmy. In the past few years I've gotten involved in various other conservative circles but I'm beginning to think Mike Huckabee might be our country's only hope. I wrote a post about this topic on my personal political blog and a friend and fellow Hucksarmy contributer asked me to post about it here. I just wanted to get people's feedback on this issue and if you think the Governor is of my way of thinking on this and if you guys agree...

The target of my post is Dr. Charles Murray, author of the junk science book "The Bell Curve" which explicitly states that blacks and latinos are genetically inferior to whites. As a long time conservative Latino voter, I was very disturbed to find out that Dr. Murray is an extremely prominent figure among the American right, and his funders, the Bradley Foundation, have been giving millions of dollars in grants to mainstream conservative causes to promote Dr. Murray's ideas.

In the social conservative movement, we as pro-lifers, often draw comparisons to the abortion movement with the eugenics movement. Dr. Murray's works drew heavily on research from the Nazi linked Pioneer Foundation which advocates for eugenics to "purify" society. At first I tried to think that Dr. Murray's views must be out of the mainstream, and fringe, but it's become disturbingly apparent to me that his views are in fact VERY mainstream.

He has single handily shaped the "welfare" debate in this country, which is not inherently a bad thing, but it's the fact that rather than focusing on socio-economics, Dr. Murray and his long list of policy accomplishments have not been rooted in figuring out the socio-economic roots of poverty amongst minorities (ironically he leaves out poor white areas of America) but in slashing welfare because it is pointless because minorities are just "genetically dumber."

His other main theory is that more than 50% of Americans are simply too genetically stupid to go to college and that only his selective group of "cognitive elites" should be allowed to attend college and advance in society...

I was wondering what y'alls thoughts in this are? Do you think these are issues that Gov. Huckabee would speak out against?

Thanks!

-Dan


Dan, thank you for sharing these thoughts with us. One of the things that concerns me most is the marginalization of blacks and other ethnic groups by elitist thinkers. We are all of one race; skin color or background are harmful and useless ways of judging people. I believe the goal of socialists and elitists is to dominate people to put down certain groups, remove their freedoms and ability to think for themselves.

Through government power and policy, Hitler was able to remove from the Jewish people their rights, influence, and respect, and finally their personhood in the eyes of other citizens. By making the Jews and other minorities appear inferior and nonhuman, Nazi leaders were able to justify the most evil of acts to satisfy their own evil desires for dominance.

There is no evidence for the inferiority of either sex or of any people group. Many things, such as nutrition, opportunity, education, and prejudice, as well as beliefs, affect the way people learn. Centuries of tradition may keep girls or women, or certain classes from being allowed to receive schooling or training. These traditions or lack of opportunity may give the impression of comparative lack of intelligence. But the biggest hindrance to inability to have equal intelligence or learning is not hereditary, but based upon human pride and the desire of some to dominate or destroy others.

The "dumbing down" of American students has been a topic of concern for years. One of the goals of socialists and communist thinkers is to dumb down the people so they become more susceptible to suggestion and less able to think for themselves. In order for government to become more powerful, politically correct education is all that is allowed. The exclusion of Christian training and perspective on history is crucial to the socialist thinker, since the ideals of freedom come from Judeo-Christian truths. Once upon a time, American schools taught that ethics had a basis in biblical truths that were considered timeless and foundational. It is hard not to see a trend of both dumbing down and secularizing the American student today.

Mike Huckabee, in his book A Simple Government, points out how the communists tore the family unit apart in order to gain complete control in Russia in 1917. If a government can destroy the family unit (as it is doing extensively among the black community through welfare and through abortion as pushed by Planned Parenthood) then those elitists who want central government can subjugate the people. Yes, they use the dumbing down of school children to keep the people from desiring excellence.

I see the roots not in any party but rather in a philosophy that has been prevalent throughout the 20th Century. Its roots are secular and atheistic, and such thinkers (if you call them that) such as Karl Marx and brought about a loss of human spirit. The pro-life movement, as Mike Huckabee explains it, is not just about preventing abortion, but also about respecting all human life. It is vital that the pro-life ethic wins, or we all lose.

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 10:55 pm 
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Miserere wrote:
I also wouldn't say Charles Murray is extremely prominent on the right today. Certainly his stuff was much discussed in the 80s and 90s, but your post is the first I've heard of him in years.

I agree. I doubt that most people would even recognize his name nowadays.


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