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The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee
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Author:  Iowans Rock [ Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

Quote:
Pundits and observers have dubbed businessman Herman Cain the “Mike Huckabee” of the 2012 presidential cycle.

Their reasoning: He’s a Southerner, an outsider, a talk show host, an underdog and a guy who’s caught unexpected fire in Iowa.

That comparison, however, is an insult to the former Arkansas governor’s electoral and political achievements, and sets up false expectations for the Cain presidential campaign.

Political achievements:

There’s no greater chasm between the two candidates than their political experience. Huckabee was a successful two-term governor of Arkansas. Cain has never held elective office.

That doesn’t necessarily pose a problem for Cain’s chances in the primary. After all, GOP primary voters look famously askance at political experience right about now. But it obscures the fact that Huckabee and Cain are two very different kinds of outsider.

Cain’s experience comes from the private sector, where he was a successful businessman, turning Godfather’s Pizza into a profitable enterprise as CEO. Huckabee’s executive experience comes from serving two terms as governor of Arkansas. To many, Cain’s executive experience is as valuable as Huckabee’s.

But political experience does count for something, and Cain’s lack of it has already hurt him badly on the trail. His most obvious struggles have been on foreign policy, where he’s made gaffes befitting someone who’s never held office.

During an interview with the Christian Broadcasting Network, he admitted as much, launching into a confession that might have sunk other candidates: “I’m working real hard on understanding heads of state, on other countries around the world, being able to pronounce their names properly.”

The former talk show host’s excuse? “[Foreign policy] is an area that I have not focused on because when I was doing my radio show, foreign affairs didn’t come up that often in terms of what my listeners wanted.”

That’s the kind of experience that anyone, no matter how leery they are of career politicians, might question.

And the gulf between Huckabee and Cain shows up in another particularly critical foreign-affairs issue in the GOP primary — the Israel/Palestine relationship. In February, the former governor made his 15th trip to the Holy Land, where he’s formed close ties with key political figures. On that trip, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said there was no greater friend to Israel than Huckabee — an international courtesy, no doubt, but still a reflection of Huckabee’s vocal support for the state of Israel.

And Huckabee was one of the harshest opponents of President Obama’s policy toward Israel, calling it “unprecedented” and arguing the president was leaving Israel “alone” in the world. He was also a vocal proponent of Jewish settlement and strong opponent of the two-state solution.

With all that in mind, let’s take a look at where Cain — the ostensible second coming of Huckabee — stands.

When asked on Fox News what he thought of the Palestinian Right of Return — an absolutely critical facet of the contentious relationship — Cain fumbled about looking for an answer he didn’t find. One day later, he told Fox News host Sean Hannity why he didn’t find it: “I didn’t understand the Right of Return. That came out of left field. And of all the questions that I anticipated him asking me, I didn’t even conceive of him asking me about the Right of Return.”

Huckabee might not be a Southern, more affable Henry Kissinger, but he’s certainly far more comfortable with the international issues a president would have to face than is Cain.

Electoral achievements:

When pundits write about Cain being this cycle’s Huckabee, they throw yet another indignity at Huckabee — one that simply rewrites history. In the current narrative, Cain has a shot of winning Iowa, but not the nomination. To pundits, that’s another point of similarity with Huckabee, who supposedly had limited appeal.

But Huckabee placed second in the 2008 presidential nomination. If critics are so hungry to advance the “Cain is Huckabee” narrative, they’ll have to embrace its electoral implications as well. If Cain is the next Huckabee, then you’re effectively predicting that he’ll finish second in the GOP nomination battle.

Huckabee’s perpetual irritation at the media’s reluctance to assign him a serious place in the conversation is well-known.

And despite the former governor’s decision to bow out of the 2012 race, he continues to suffer at the hands of a media and party establishment that never granted him anything beyond the status of curious political novelty — a pastor who quipped and smiled and won social conservatives. In Cain, they see similarities. What they don’t see is that vast gulf of experience and serious electoral appeal that separates the two.

Huckabee isn’t running for president, but it’s highly questionable to say Cain has picked up his mantle.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-presidential-primary/166449-herman-cain-is-no-mike-huckabee

Author:  Miserere [ Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

That's surprisingly well put. The Huckabee appreciation train continues to roll through DC.

Author:  EricB [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

Where we these people in 2007-08? They were bashing Huckabee!

Author:  Iowans Rock [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

EricB wrote:
Where we these people in 2007-08? They were bashing Huckabee!


Sing it with me.....Don't know what you've got 'til it's gone........

Author:  Southern Doc [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

Well we can add Chris Heinze to the list.

Author:  VertiCon [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

Actually, I think this article (while interesting for its data analysis) is misguided.

Only Huckabee is Huckabee. Just as, only Reagan is Reagan. So, when people look for "another Reagan", even Huckabee isn't him. Huckabee is Huckabee, not Reagan. And, Cain is not Huckabee nor Reagan. Cain is Cain.

Nevertheless, analogies are useful in limited ways. One has to remember all analogies break down when pressed further than they should be. For example, an orange is like the Earth but only in very narrow ways (which are obvious enough to not require explanation).

The basic question is, which candidate in 2012 will fill the "role" played by Huckabee in 2008 (a dark-horse populist outsider who is appealing [or, at least acceptable] to religious conservatives)? (Notice, a "role" is not the same as being that person). It seems to me, of the candidates so far involved only two come somewhat close to that 2008 role: Herman Cain, and Michelle Bachman. The media is busy comparing Bachman to Palin, so Cain gets more comparison to Huckabee.

Lastly, while Huckabee is Huckabee, he can never again play the exact role he did in 2008. This is because (while he still is populist outsider) he is no longer a dark horse. He is major player.

Author:  Miserere [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

VertiCon wrote:
The basic question is, which candidate in 2012 will fill the "role" played by Huckabee in 2008 (a dark-horse populist outsider who is appealing [or, at least acceptable] to religious conservatives)? (Notice, a "role" is not the same as being that person). It seems to me, of the candidates so far involved only two come somewhat close to that 2008 role: Herman Cain, and Michelle Bachman. The media is busy comparing Bachman to Palin, so Cain gets more comparison to Huckabee.


I think at first it was true that the comparisons were made between Huck's role and Cain's role.

Since the most recent debate, however, most of the pundits in the corner of the media that I follow have switched over to saying that Bachmann is most likely to be the new Huck. Krauthammer comes to mind as one who has said this a number of times.

Author:  VertiCon [ Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

Miserere wrote:
VertiCon wrote:
The basic question is, which candidate in 2012 will fill the "role" played by Huckabee in 2008 (a dark-horse populist outsider who is appealing [or, at least acceptable] to religious conservatives)? (Notice, a "role" is not the same as being that person). It seems to me, of the candidates so far involved only two come somewhat close to that 2008 role: Herman Cain, and Michelle Bachman. The media is busy comparing Bachman to Palin, so Cain gets more comparison to Huckabee.


I think at first it was true that the comparisons were made between Huck's role and Cain's role.

Since the most recent debate, however, most of the pundits in the corner of the media that I follow have switched over to saying that Bachmann is most likely to be the new Huck. Krauthammer comes to mind as one who has said this a number of times.

Yes, I can see that. Bachman is more knowledgeable on policy than Cain (and than Palin also). But, I doubt Bachman can expand her appeal the way Huckabee is capable of doing. Whereas, I think Cain can.

If Cain stumbles on some of the issues it will start to make him look more like Palin if he doesn't get up to speed quickly.

Cain is more like a sports coach, than a politician. He's full of rah-rah leadership rhetoric. He would be great at a Amway convention. And, he is a bit of a one-trick pony in that he has spent the vast majority of his time talking and thinking about "what is good for business". Up until this campaign season, I think the only show I would see him on was Neil Cavuto's, and he was on their a couple of times a month, anyway (maybe more). Always talking about: (like I said) "what is good for business".

In issue familiarity, he is well-suited to be the secretary of commerce. But, he is gonna have to broaden and deepen his familiarity with many other types of issues if he expects to be nominated.

Author:  QuoVadisAnima [ Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

At this point, I am inclined to believe that Cain's political inexperience/weakness has been sufficiently exposed & he is going to decline from here. He is just not ready for this & I agree with those saying he should have run for a lesser office first.

I wish good things for Bachmann, as I would rather have her for the nominee than Romney, but I fear that (based on her track record to date, as well as her lack of executive experience) she is also not ready for this, & am anticipating a mis-step or blunder that will be immediately Palinized by the media.

Author:  cschande [ Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

Southern Doc wrote:
Well we can add Chris Heinze to the list.


Heinze is and will always be a Romney guy and nothing else. Huck's no longer a threat to Mitt so he can feel safe praising him while taking shots at someone who might still be a threat. Just my take.

Author:  VertiCon [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

QuoVadisAnima wrote:
At this point, I am inclined to believe that Cain's political inexperience/weakness has been sufficiently exposed & he is going to decline from here. He is just not ready for this & I agree with those saying he should have run for a lesser office first.

I wish good things for Bachmann, as I would rather have her for the nominee than Romney, but I fear that (based on her track record to date, as well as her lack of executive experience) she is also not ready for this, & am anticipating a mis-step or blunder that will be immediately Palinized by the media.

You might have to give Perry another look, yes :wink: ?

Author:  QuoVadisAnima [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

VertiCon wrote:
QuoVadisAnima wrote:
At this point, I am inclined to believe that Cain's political inexperience/weakness has been sufficiently exposed & he is going to decline from here. He is just not ready for this & I agree with those saying he should have run for a lesser office first.

I wish good things for Bachmann, as I would rather have her for the nominee than Romney, but I fear that (based on her track record to date, as well as her lack of executive experience) she is also not ready for this, & am anticipating a mis-step or blunder that will be immediately Palinized by the media.

You might have to give Perry another look, yes :wink: ?


Yes. :cry:

Author:  Miserere [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

QuoVadisAnima wrote:
VertiCon wrote:
QuoVadisAnima wrote:
At this point, I am inclined to believe that Cain's political inexperience/weakness has been sufficiently exposed & he is going to decline from here. He is just not ready for this & I agree with those saying he should have run for a lesser office first.

I wish good things for Bachmann, as I would rather have her for the nominee than Romney, but I fear that (based on her track record to date, as well as her lack of executive experience) she is also not ready for this, & am anticipating a mis-step or blunder that will be immediately Palinized by the media.

You might have to give Perry another look, yes :wink: ?


Yes. :cry:



Maybe this is unreasonable, but I don't know if I prefer Perry to Romney. I just can't see Perry as a serious person; can't see him in the Oval Office.

Author:  nrobyar [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

Perry, IMO, is worse than Mitt Romney. At least Romney was never a friend to Governor Huckabee. For Perry to treat Huck the way he did during the last election just didn't sit well with me and didn't vouch for his character. Didn't like the way he turned on President Bush either. It seems he is calculating and self-serving. Just my opinion...

Author:  QuoVadisAnima [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

Perry & Romney are both slimy, opportunistic corporatists, but I am inclined to believe that Perry's political resume still trumps Romney's - certainly Perry is more politically savvy than Romney.

I believe firmly in Krauthammer's prediction about this race being extremely negative & dirty because that's the way this admin works anyway. They will run rings around Romney & leave him looking totally stupid (while he's consulting polls to find out how he should react). At least Perry knows the game better. I dunno that he can keep up with the Chicago roller derby, but I believe he has a better chance of surviving it than Romney.

And I am also inclined to think (though this is where my opinion gets really shaky) that Perry has a level of slime that he won't go beyond whereas I have never been convinced that Romney does.

Author:  coloredopinions [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

the strength of Mike Huckabee's campaign was not that he appealed to social conservatives. His strength was that he appealed to different sections of the Republican party at the same time. During the 2008 Huckabee played the role of the uniter instead of the divider. In that sense I see similarities between Mike Huckabee and Jim DeMint. Social conservatives should ask themselves the question how they can convince the more libertarian factions of the party. Libertarians inside the party should ask themselves the question what they value in social conservatives. It's that ability to appreciate the ideological contribution of the different sections of the Republican party to a common endresult that made Mike Huckabe the formidable candidate in 2008. In other words, candidates don't need to be Huckabee. Candidates should learn from Mike Huckabee and Jim DeMint that religious conservatives can appeal to libertarians and vice versa. How disappointing instead to see some of the would-be Mike Huckabee's trying to outdo themselves in exactedly doing the opposite.

Author:  VertiCon [ Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

nrobyar wrote:
Perry, IMO, is worse than Mitt Romney.
The difference is, Perry can win; Romney can't. Romney is completely neutralized on the Obamacare issue. Moreover (deserved, or not) Perry has the 'reputation" of being the best job creator in America (politician wise). A lot of what politics is about is 'the moment". Or, as the bible says, "for such a time as this." A Perry/Pawlenty ticket would be conceptually unbeatable in the general election because it would be the narrative of two job-creating can-do reformist governors against two statist insider senators. Whatever one thinks of the men personally, if that narrative were to predominate it would be what the moment was calling for. It would seem to be the antidote to the current narrative in Washington.

Author:  VertiCon [ Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

Additionally, Perry has the McCain trump card. He is the only serious candidate who is a military veteran. (I don't count Ron Paul ---the only other vet.--as a serious candidate).

Author:  Miserere [ Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

Romney is the only candidate to actually beat Obama in polls thus far, so I'm not sure it's right to say he can't win. I'm not sure the election will be about Obamacare: independents aren't terribly concerned about it (at the moment), for one. Two, Romney has the perfectly good defense of federalism and the fact that Romneycare isn't apparently bankrupting his state.

I see the election more about spending and the economy generally, and the business-savvy Romney will be a better contrast to Obama than Perry would. Perry's personality will grate on the American people too much for him to have a chance. The advantage of the "Texas narrative" will diminish when people realize we're 24th or 25th best/worst in our unemployment rate.

Author:  VertiCon [ Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Hill: Herman Cain is no Mike Huckabee

Romney is a clear RINO. If Romney can win, anyone can win. Meaning, if an acceptable warm body is on the Republican ticket and the voters are ready to throw Obama out, then Romney will win.

That is the "referendum" scenario.

In a close "choice" election, advantage goes to the incumbent. So, its not so clear that Romney offers anything better since he did nothing noteworthy in Massachusetts (except, foist same-sex marriage on the nation).

You are right about Perry possibly not being personally appealing to voters, but neither is Romney. If Perry is a bright burnt-orange color hard on the eyes, Romney is an ultra-light grey; hardly worth noticing.

I think the point about the Texas narrative isn't the actual unemployment rate (because there are a number of small states which didn't experience large job losses -- Iowa for example.)

Rather, it seems to me, the narrative is that Texas is one of the few states creating jobs, even if the rate itself is still too high. So, the point can be made that a pro-business environment is better than a pro-government environment.

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