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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:05 am 
Christian wrote:
ShooshforHuck,
You definately have a lot of reading to do. You are voicing concerns that don't exist in the FairTax plan. I'm not sure where you have gathered your info, but nothing you have suggested is accurate.
Read my post here for the basic description, but also check out the basic FAQ at FairTax.org.


I would prefer no tax at all. This fair tax seems to good to be true. There has to be a hidden agenda in it. Transparency is needed. I know there is somethings that cant be seen.

http://robertsrationale.blogspot.com/20 ... r-tax.html


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:22 am 
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You want no tax at all but believe the FairTax is too good to be true? That's not a consistant statement.
Nothing is hidden about the FairTax, in fact it is a much more transparent system than we have now.
The article you point to is full of holes, and even starts with an attempt to "prove" something that doesn't matter...whether the FairTax is progressive or not. The assertion that middle income people don't benefit from the fairtax is factually inaccurate.
The truth of the matter is we have a tax system that punishes productivity, discourages saving and investment, and makes it easier for us to ship our jobs overseas than our products. The FairTax fixes all of this.
If you are interested in actually learning about the FairTax, and have actual questions you want answered, I'm happy to do it. But let's start digging into a point/counterpoint discussion rather than random assertions based on inaccurate information.
If you are just here to bad-mouth the proposal and have no interest in listening, I suggest you just move on to another forum.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:39 am 
Christian wrote:
You want no tax at all but believe the FairTax is too good to be true? That's not a consistant statement.
Nothing is hidden about the FairTax, in fact it is a much more transparent system than we have now.
The article you point to is full of holes, and even starts with an attempt to "prove" something that doesn't matter...whether the FairTax is progressive or not. The assertion that middle income people don't benefit from the fairtax is factually inaccurate.
The truth of the matter is we have a tax system that punishes productivity, discourages saving and investment, and makes it easier for us to ship our jobs overseas than our products. The FairTax fixes all of this.
If you are interested in actually learning about the FairTax, and have actual questions you want answered, I'm happy to do it. But let's start digging into a point/counterpoint discussion rather than random assertions based on inaccurate information.
If you are just here to bad-mouth the proposal and have no interest in listening, I suggest you just move on to another forum.


That was quite rude *mod edit*. I am a straight shooter here punk. With an attitude like that towards someone new, I can see why huck gets bad publicity.
I hope your fart bomb doesnt stain your underwear. I just saved me 100$ from your smart remark there kiddo. Fred Thompson is looking pretty good about now.
Again good luck on your fart bomb today. You people are really nutz and so full of your self. Huckabee supporters are a bunch of cult members. I had to see for my self. Unreal. Just lost this mans vote and support. Something does stink in here. Must be your fart day here. Don't bother banning me, Unlike mike. I am a man of my word. I wont be back.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:48 am 
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We'll see if he's true to his word, and I'm actually not going to delete that post (other than my explitive removal). I think it is a clear indication of what we are up against in terms of attitude from supporters of certain other candidates. Obviously he never seriously considered Huckabee or the FairTax. I don't believe my post was rude at all, just matter of fact. I offered to help and walk him through anything he didn't understand. Obviously he didn't desire to do that and resorted to name calling. I guess it's a case of when you can't win, throw a tempor tantrum.
Quote:
Just lost this mans vote and support.

Can't lose what we never had.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:15 pm 
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That sounded more like a Ron Paul supporter (I favor NO TAXES)

If he is truely going to check out Fred Thompson, I hope he likes the modified FLAT TAX that Fred is proposing!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:50 am 
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What's the deal with that dude and farts..

Anywho, back to the topic of the fair tax.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:00 pm 
Christian is a fart bomb. Justin is a stain.
8)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:02 pm 
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I mentioned this in another thread, but nobody answered.. But basically I'm wondering if there is anybody here who is good at video production. The videos on youtube about the fairtax aren't very helpful in my opinion.

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The FairTax takes a while to explain. What I would like to see is a presentation of the FairTax with some visual aides. How about a YouTube video that shows the difference in paychecks before and after the FairTax becomes law? A scene where someone receives their Prebate check in the mail? An interview with the manager in a local WalMart who explains that prices won't be that much different? A scene where a pimp is buying a brand new Escalade and is paying his fair share of taxes? I wish I could put something like this together, but I dont have video making experience.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:01 am 
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You may want to try this page on http://www.fairtax.org

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=news_audiovideo

Scroll down page to
"It's Time - Viedo"

You can view it and then download it.

This was done prior to the 2007 Congress so there are a few items such as the Senate bill number and some other references. but it should give you a handy viedo.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:28 pm 
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I wish I had found this thread before I started mine. I have written a position paper on how the FairTax will effect the Gaming Industry (I am a grassroots supporter in Las Vegas Nevada)
Please review my article and I wouldn't mind my thread moved here if that can be done? Thanks
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6043&p=42225#p42225

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:22 pm 
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Ok, I'm about 3/4 through Neal Boortz's FairTax Book, and everything makes total complete "duh" sense.

My problem, however, is that I have a friend who hounds me saying the rich will be able to evade the taxes, that it's really going to be 30% and not the 23% proposed, the middle class is going to get hurt the worst, et al. All the basic anti-FairTax arguments.

I try to explain, and she understands some of it, but I notice that the problem is that she just doesn't know enough about it, so I'm in the process of educating her about it, and am going to make her read the book when I'm finished. :mrgreen: But she also spouts stuff that she hears "tons and tons of economists" saying that Boortz doesn't know what he's talking about, etc. I keep asking her, "Give me names. Who? When? Where?" She can't answer it.

I was just reading on wikipedia about the fairtax, trying to find an answer to the whole "it's really gonna be 30%" argument I keep hearing. The article attempts to explain it, but I am having a really hard time understanding it. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Can anyone help??

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:32 pm 
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Hey I got FairTax.org to give an official reply to my question regarding its effect on the Gaming Industry!

FairTax report on effect on Gaming Industry: http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer? ... askanswer2

Cydney- The 23vs30 percent issue is an effect of how you calculate the tax. In reality they are both right. It's just that the 23% is configured the same way current income taxes are figured, whereas the 30% is figured similar to current sales taxes. The point is that it doesn't matter because when the embedded taxes and compliance costs we current pay for every item we buy are removed by passing the FairTax and adding the 23% the end price will be the same as it is now. A dollar loaf now will cost a dollar after. That is the point, or one of the points, of a revenue neutral tax. And the prebate checks going to every legal household covers the taxes paid on all basic necessities.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:27 am 
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I actually went to FairTax.Org and they explained it in plain English. I'm all good, and it makes sense now. :)

People are using it very deceptively, however, saying you would be paying 30 cents on every dollar, which isn't true.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:00 am 
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Recent WND article on FairTax:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=59575


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:48 pm 
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Cydney,
You are right. The whole 23% vs 30% argument is a rather lame excuse used by desperate people. I just usually show people a very simple example rather than even attempting to describe the whold "inclusive" vs "exclusive" tax concept.
2 liter Coke bottle: $1
Business sends in $.23, or 23% of the purchase price.
2 liter Coke bottle: $.77
Business charges 30% tax, or $.23 making the total purchase price $1.

Two different percentages, one final price. And in both instances the tax is the same.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:08 pm 
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Ok, I try and explain it to her, and it basically turned into a shouting match, with me trying to explain but she constantly interrupted me: "The middle class will be hurt the worst! They will suffer! Use common sense! It makes common sense. The rich will find ways to evade it!"

And then the other lady I worked with printed out a factcheck.org article:
http://www.factcheck.org/taxes/pring_unspinning_the_fairtax.html

I read it, and it's all the arguments I've heard before!

The last 20 minutes were pretty much a gang-up-on-Cydney fest. Whew. Remind me to never try and discuss the merits of the FairTax with two democrats EVER again. I nearly cried.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:25 pm 
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Don't cry Cydney! You are on the right side here. I mean, are these folks really defending the current tax code?! That's not a rock to stand on...

Anyway, the Factcheck.org article has been completely trashed by Americans for Fair Taxation. The response to the article is here.
http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/ResponseToFa ... airTax.pdf

What's with this argument that "the rich will evade it"? What do they think is happening now! The tax code is nothing but 60,000 pages of special interest loopholes exploited by those both at the top and the bottom, leaving the middle class to suffer.

I ask them to show me one example where a member of the middle class will be hurt by the fairtax. They can't do it using fact, only emotion. I'm a self-employed middle class class guy. I can't wait for the FairTax!

Dare them to post their questions here. I will nuke them for you. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:48 pm 
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chiefcook wrote:
... The other benefit the non-profit organization will enjoy is there is no longer a "non-profit" status for them to lose and no IRS to come after them. The group can say what they want about whoever they want without any threats from the government. (They get their free speech back!) A church can preach against the death penalty or abortions and can tell their followers to vote against a candidate without any threat of losing their "non-profit" status.


Yep, that will be interesting along how it works out in politics both local and national, when people of faith can tell people who the church supports. On the other hand, it can cause some hard feelings in churches if their members do not feel the same away, but I think that is worth the risk :)

When you add in that all non-profits will be paying taxes when they make purchase, any illegals will pay along with all drug dealers or other illegal endevors, that will be a lot of missing revenue come in to override those that find loopholes not to pay.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:21 pm 
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Thanks for that article, Christian. I'll have to show my friends that. Apparently the AFT is much better at citing good sources than factcheck.org:

Both of these quotes from the factcheck.org article:
Quote:
Unfortunately, the Advisory Panel has thus far refused to release its methodology, making it difficult to reconcile its projections with those of Americans for Fair Taxation.


Quote:
The Treasury Department has so far refused to release its methodology, making it difficult to determine whose estimate is correct.


Um....yeah. Like I'm going to believe what you say as you admit you can't compare the estimates...Riiiiiight.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:20 pm 
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i believe the essence of the 23 vs 30 debate is that people believe that prices will go up by that amount. If that were true, then it is very important which number is more correct.

So i would turn any discussion of 23/30 into an explanation that current prices already reflect the cost of taxation. The FairTax will go nowhere if people don't get this.

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