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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:37 pm 
http://tolbertreport.com/2009/07/13/is- ... ird-party/

Tolbert Report wrote:
Is Sarah Palin Forming a Third Party?

Alaska Governor Sarah Palin’s announcement on July 3 that she would be stepping down at the end of the month surprised the political world. Could she be getting ready to surprise everyone once again by forming a third party? Maybe, if the latest entry on her blog is any indication.

On Gov. Palin’s “Latest News” section of her PAC’s website, an entry entitled “Palin Hints At Independent Conservative Movement” includes excerpts from Pro-Palin blogger Tammy Bruce stating the following

“Enter now Sarah Palin with very encouraging comments that lead one to believe that she is indeed planning to do what she must: build an independent conservative movement and take this nation back from the liberals which now control both parties.Thanks liberals, for provoking Sarah into the national scene while vetting that family at the same time. “

“One thing I will say, the Washington Times with their headline for this exclusive interview reveal an anti-Palin stance. She is, don’t doubt, a threat to every existing political status quo. I hope the Washington Times and their editors realize, sooner than later, that the Palin movement is unstoppable and their credibility would be saved simply by reporting the news instead of becoming a GOP version of the NYT.”


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:00 am 
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Wow, I seriously hope she does not try to start a third party. As much as I dislike the republican party elite, a third party is the quickest way to cement even bigger democrat majorities.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:02 am 
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Joshua Clinard wrote:
Wow, I seriously hope she does not try to start a third party. As much as I dislike the republican party elite, a third party is the quickest way to cement even bigger democrat majorities.
You are so right. They say the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. It will be a long 4 more years if the Democrats gain anymore power. The damage will be irreversible.

I hope she follows Mike's philosophy about reforming the party from within.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:44 am 
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She is probably washed up as a politician since she didn't even finish her governorship term. She may have a strong following but she won't bring in any more votes from others because we will remember her lack of following through on commitment.

If there were no one else out there, then maybe. But there is Mike and probably some others I would still vote for before Palin because I want someone I can trust won't turn tail and run when the fire gets hot(ter).

I don't mean to offend Palin supporters because I would be right there wanting Mike to go independent (have even hoped for it) as well. And it was so disappointing when he dropped out during the primary, and we kept hoping for the VP spot. But I really think Palin burned her bridges when she stepped down as governor and she can make any excuse she wants. The end result is the same. And after the shock and the mourning, I think the Palin supporters will feel betrayed because she did so.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:02 am 
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I'm not necessarily advocating the idea of a third party, however, I think it's too easy to dismiss it as a "bad idea', simply because it would give the liberals even bigger majorities. If you can't see, that has already happened partially because many Republicans vote with the Democrats (Hello....eight Republicans who pushed National Health Care through the house, if they had not of voted for it, it would have stalled in the house).

Again, I'm not advocating the idea of a third party, however if she Were Successful at it, she would drive the liberal Republicans into their true party (The Democrats) in order for them to hold their seats in their districts against a (possible) potentially powerful third party.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:54 am 
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I believe that another third party has no chance in 2012 and probably not in 2016 either (if ever), but my question for those that completely dismiss it out of hand is to what extent and for how long would it take of the Republicans abandoning conservative principles and policies for you to abandon them? 20 years? 50?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:27 am 
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Guys, I know you will think I have lost what is left of my marbles, but follow me closely on this one.

1. Sarah Palin forms an Independent Conservative party.

2. The independent conservative party acquires a considerable number of social conservatives. Enough of them that the GOP loses a sizeable percentage of their "base."

3. The GOP is now free to appeal to the large block of independent socially liberal fiscal conservatives. This would be the "Center Right" everyone keeps talking about.

4. Neither the Independent Conservative Party nor the GOP by themselves have a majority large enough to elect a President.

BUT: Start thinking outside the "American Box." I know how much most conservatives dislike the European model, but European politics is based on coalitions of several parties.

When you put together a coalition of the GOP, the Independent Conservative Party, the Libertarian Party, the Constitution party and whatever party the Paulistas want to tag along behind, you have a whole new model for American politics. I think this model might have a very good chance of trumping a "Liberal Coalition" because there just aren't that many viable coalition members on the Left outside of the Democratic Party.

Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:14 am 
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Sarah Palin is not forming a third party. It is just more of "Sarah being Sarah."

Now that she is unmanaged, unrestrained and unhampered, every other day she will be blurting out some homespun philosophy -- some of which will stick, most of which will be analyzed and critically received, all of which probably never needed to be said.

Whatever your thoughts on the woman, whether you think she is the reincarnation of Esther or Katherine Harris, never take anything she says too seriously -- it will change daily. Firstly, she never said she was forming a third party. She is attempting to present herself as a nonpartisan, noncontroversial condidate -- all of which will fall apart when she opens her mouth again with another controversial statement. The problem with Palin is she isn't prepared for national politics, but she wants it so desperately she is trying any kind of shock value to get there.

I sincerely believe her decision to resign as govenor was not a happy one for her. But, true to her character, days later she was up and out again, sprouting the cause of all she believes -- for that day.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:30 pm 
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I have to agree. I think the chances that Sarah is forming a third party might be about as small as Ron Paul winning the Presidency. There is no chance.

HOWEVER, it's an interesting topic. In this virtual, alternate universe where Palin creates another party, it's nothing but bad for Republicans.

DannyPoo wrote:
I'm not necessarily advocating the idea of a third party, however, I think it's too easy to dismiss it as a "bad idea', simply because it would give the liberals even bigger majorities. If you can't see, that has already happened partially because many Republicans vote with the Democrats (Hello....eight Republicans who pushed National Health Care through the house, if they had not of voted for it, it would have stalled in the house).

Again, I'm not advocating the idea of a third party, however if she Were Successful at it, she would drive the liberal Republicans into their true party (The Democrats) in order for them to hold their seats in their districts against a (possible) potentially powerful third party.


I have to strongly disagree with this quote. So now if a Republican doesn't vote conservative 100% of the time they aren't a true conservative? I wouldn't vote for anyone who entered public office entering with that mindset. I want someone who is going to get things done that are going to be good for the people, regardless of whether it's conservative or not. I just happen to believe conservative ideas are the best way to get that done, though they probably are not ALWAYS the best. (i'll still take most of the time)

But let's say your idea happens and republicans become "true republicans". It won't matter. Republicans would NEVER win the White House. Ever. If there is a conservative 3rd party with a considerable amount of support (say....20%. Considering Palin's popularity, it would surprise me if it was that low.), President Obama would wipe the floor with Republicans and the "Palin-Party" in the General.

Palin's got a very large following from ultra conservatives to moderates and liberals. But probably 80% of her following (which would probably come out to be about 16-18% of the total electorate) would be republicans, making a majority impossible and making an Obama landslide (maybe 50 states?) not only possible, but likely.

Imagine even Alabama, a state in which McCain took by about 25 points, suddenly looking like a battleground state. The sitting President, barring a MAJOR screw up, should have no problem getting 40% of the vote. Leaving approx. 60% (probably a little less) of the vote up for grabs. Normally, the Republican would grab 55% easily (I believe McCain was in the 60s). However, with the "Palin Party" as the new, energetic party and appealing strongly to fair-minded conservatives, it would probably grab at least 20-25%. Leaving only 35-40% of the vote left, meaning about EVERY VOTE would need to fall to the republican and none to the other 3rd party candidates.

I'm not trying to be pessimistic here, but if Sarah Palin formed another conservative party, Republicans would get crushed in 2012. I would say her party would die out quickly, but the damage would already have been done.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:34 pm 
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I know it's not popular to advocate third parties around here, but I want somebody other than the Republican establishment in the driver's seat of the "conservative coalition", so I'd be thrilled if she were to do it. If enough conservatives leave the Reps to do their own thing, it will force the Reps to the right or into oblivion. Either is fine with me.

I said this all throughout the primaries and throughout the general, and I'm sticking to it. So long as conservatives stay with the Republicans because they are afraid of the dems, they are no different from abused women who stay with their "men" because they are afraid of being alone. Why should the establishment take conservatives seriously if we are going to vote for them anyway? There's no rational reason for them to whatsoever.

Now, I doubt Sarah will start her own party, but kudos to her for having the guts to do something real if she does. Unlike other third parties (even the one I'm a member of), she has the profile to create a real alternative.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:30 pm 
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DannyPoo wrote:
(Hello....eight Republicans who pushed National Health Care through the house, if they had not of voted for it, it would have stalled in the house).


I just want to clear a couple things up if I may. First of all, I think you're referring to the 8 Republicans who voted in favor of Cap and Trade. As I understand it, Pelosi had more than enough Democratic votes to get the thing to pass, but when she learned she had some Republicans voting for it, she allowed some of the Democrats from more conservative districts to vote against it to protect their seats.

I'm personally against the whole 3rd party idea at this point. I don't think the Republican Party is beyond restoration yet, but it will take time. However, it would take far more time (years, maybe even decades) to build a third party that could compete with the Democratic Party on the national level with the Republican Party still in the hunt, too.

However, a bigger question we're struggling with right now as a Party is whether we should attempt to purify the Party by kicking out the "RINOs" or if we should help more moderates get elected in states where moderates are more likely than conservatives to win.

I still haven't come to a firm conclusion to this question myself. I think there are some issues that we should very rarely, if ever, allow the candidates we select to compromise on, such as abortion.

I also think we should be searching for solid younger conservative candidates to lead the Party into the future (such as Marco Rubio in Florida). I think developing stronger conservative candidates is probably more constructive than focusing on "kicking the RINOs out," at this stage. Eventually many of the RINOs will start dying off on their own (many of them are pretty old), and if we spend all of our time trying to kick them out, we may only help to divide the Party further while failing to recognize and properly develop conservative candidates with the potential to shape the Party in years to come.

I think it says a lot about where both parties are at right now that Democrats in the House are taking great pains to protect their more conservative elected officials and Republicans are talking about kicking their more moderate elected officials out of office and out of the Party. Obviously Democrats have more wriggle room with such large majorities, but it's still something to think about.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:17 pm 
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cschande: When are you going to run for office?? Or better yet, Steele needs to put you on his staff. :D


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:01 am 
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I think we need the exact opposite of more political parties - let's just eliminate them completely -- we're too divided already.

Imagine voting for a candidate based on their resume & ideas without concern about Party affiliation! Is such a thing even possible?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:45 am 
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The only thing a third party formation would do is guarantee 4 more years of Obama! If Palin cares about the causes she has run on, she would not even contemplate doing that. However, she may feel that payback is sweet revenge. The media, democrats and even many in her own party have negative opinions of her performance. Some people are less receptive to constructive criticism than others and I think Palin really is bothered by all the negatives out there about her.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:57 am 
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Polly A wrote:
cschande: When are you going to run for office?? Or better yet, Steele needs to put you on his staff. :D


Thanks, Polly, you just made my day! :mrgreen:

I just hope if I ever do run for public office I have supporters who are of the same high caliber as those who post here at HucksArmy. :D

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:43 pm 
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voter wrote:
The problem with Palin is she isn't prepared for national politics, but she wants it so desperately she is trying any kind of shock value to get there.


Yeah, when I saw her dancing around in that new Mariah Carey video, your statement immediately came to mind. She's not quite as good as Paula Abdul, but she is better than Monica Seles. ;) BTW, does anyone know when Palin's album will be available for download on iTunes? :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:23 pm 
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From GOP12.com

The National Chair of The Independence Party, Frank MacKay, is visiting Alaska later this month, just as Sarah Palin steps down.



MacKay said he arranged the trip before Palin announced her decision to step down and described the junket for which he paying for personally as a combination of wildlife viewing and some political meetings.

MacKay would not saying who he is meeting with while visiting the state but admits that will be stopping in Wasilla, Palin's hometown, during his four-day trip.

He called the timing a "bizarre coincidence

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:54 pm 
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I just can't see the sense in yearning for a new party. A party is only as good as the people in it. You won't affect change by labeling our disappointments differently. After all, there are already plenty of 'third parties'. None of them are succeeding anywhere. Republicans and their party are not the enemy. We just need better Republicans. We have to accept the fact that Americans have been given exactly what we've asked for. We become lethargic and apathetic and easily distracted. We've allowed the government to grab too much power and control over our lives, and now we have nearly surrendered to that inevitability. I think it's been so long since we were truly free that we've forgotten how it's supposed to be.

It will take a leader(s)- to wake people up, pump them up, make them get angry about the ongoing attack against liberty. Think of all the things you see and hear on a daily basis that make you think "oh well, the country's going to hell in a handbasket." When will we say "NO! This is not acceptable!" ?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:39 am 
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Quote:
We just need better Republicans. We have to accept the fact that Americans have been given exactly what we've asked for.

But how does this not prove the point that those of us who do advocate replacing the Republican party make? If Americans have gotten what they asked for, much more have conservative Republicans gotten what they asked for. Look at the state of the Republican party: disorganized power grabbers who want just as big a government as Democrats and who are just trying to figure out a way to get back in power.

Do you really think that getting conservative senators and congressmen elected is going to change the party? I don't, because there is still a system. The establishment isn't elected. So long as we keep playing their game, playing by their rules, then they are what we are asking for. And I'm sorry, but I don't think they are conservative. Just look at Reagan for proof. Here, we elected a genuinely conservative President, and what happens to the party? Nothing. They opposed him before his election, got him to name a moderate as his VP . . . and then after he was gone? They went back to their same 'ol agenda and did it in his name.

I mean, so long as the Reps get forced to run a genuine conservative (i.e., Huckabee), then we should vote for him. Fine. But to try to rebuild the party? I just don't understand the mentality. A viable third party has to be built locally up. You don't start out running for prez. You build it by electing local officials, then state congressmen, then federal congressmen and senators. Then, when you have a real presence, you run the presidential candidate, but by that time, you'll have taken so much wind out of the Republican sails, the people will vote for the new party for the same reason they insist on voting for Reps now: because they would be convinced they'd be throwing away their vote otherwise.

You are right. Americans have gotten what they wanted, and conservatives have gotten exactly what they asked for. I, for one, think we should start asking for something else.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:10 am 
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Forming a 3rd party would require a large amount of cash & considerable organizational skills - and a significant amount of time to get it off the ground. If we could afford the time needed for such an undertaking, then perhaps it would be different - but I don't believe that we can afford to wait.

How is splitting the resources of the GOP into two (which is in essence what a 3rd party would be doing) going to help us defeat the liberals?

We have been so offended by the fis-con suggestion of dumping the social cons & appealing to independents. So why would we advocate dumping the fis-cons (which seems to smack of either spite or hypocrisy to some extent) & appealing to independents to form a 3rd party? Especially with so much overlap between the things these groups value in common?

Reagan formed a coalition because he recognized that we shared many of the same values, but also because he recognized that we needed unity to have sufficient money & numbers to defeat those who are destroying our country.

Huckabee is right - we need to make the most of the resources that are already in place & attempt to rebuild the party. I do wish he would make a more conciliatory effort towards the fis-cons, but I suspect that he suspects that it will be impossible until they have given up on Romney.

And there is much to indicate that the fis-cons who are against him are mainly "Beltway insiders" moreso than "we the people".


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