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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:36 pm 
It looks like TPaw will soon be endorsing Hoffman.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/1 ... -soon.html

The Note wrote:
Pawlenty 'Concerned' About NY GOP Candidate; Plans Endorsement Soon
October 23, 2009 12:58 PM


ABC News’ Rick Klein reports:

With the Republican Party splintering over a House race in upstate New York, Gov. Tim Pawlenty said on ABCNews.com's "Top Line" today that he has significant concerns about the Republican candidate's positions on key issues, as well as the process by which she was chosen as the GOP nominee.

In New York State's 23rd congressional district, Republican nominee Dede Scozzafava is facing a challenge on her right from Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman -- who nabbed the endorsement of former Gov. Sarah Palin, R-Alaska, yesterday.

Pawlenty, who's widely mentioned as a possible 2012 presidential candidate, said he will "probably" make an endorsement in the race -- and sounded as if he's poised to support Hoffman over Scozzafava.

"As a conservative I'm concerned about some of the alleged issue positions that she holds," said Pawlenty, R-Minn. "I want to be fair to both candidates and look at their records. But there are some things that [I] have been told that you know, she holds dear, that may not be consistent with conservative principles."

His comments underscore the extent to which the race between Scozzafava, Hoffman, and Democrat Bill Owens is coming to define the direction of the Republican Party.

Scozzafava was chosen by local county chairmen to be the GOP nominee in the Nov. 3 special election, and the Republican National Committee and other national party entities are supporting her. But her support for same-sex marriage and abortion rights, among other issues, has rankled other Republicans, including Palin.

GOP leaders including former House Speaker Newt Gingrich are saying they'll support Scozzafava in the interest of winning a moderate district.

But Pawlenty said that as far as he's concerned, having an "R" next to a candidate's name isn't enough.

"As a conservative I am worried about some of the things I've heard in this race about how the person was selected," he said. "It seemed to be a small group of insiders, as opposed to the party more broadly. But I want to take some time to get to know the records of these individuals before I make a decision about who to endorse or not."


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:04 pm 
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Any possible Pres. Candidate who endorses at this point will look like they are following Palins lead (I still think she did the right thing though). However, it will make Palin look like the party leader.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:14 pm 
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All other considerations aside, at least GH still comes out of this supportive of Hoffman - it shouldn't work against him in 2012...


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:38 pm 
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DannyPoo wrote:
Any possible Pres. Candidate who endorses at this point will look like they are following Palins lead (I still think she did the right thing though). However, it will make Palin look like the party leader.
At least that's how Palin fanatics will paint it . Of course I think Fred Thompson was the first big name to support Hoffman.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:43 am 
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christopher.wilkerson wrote:
DannyPoo wrote:
Any possible Pres. Candidate who endorses at this point will look like they are following Palins lead (I still think she did the right thing though). However, it will make Palin look like the party leader.
At least that's how Palin fanatics will paint it . Of course I think Fred Thompson was the first big name to support Hoffman.


Governor Huckabee had some positive comments on FoxNews Thursday or Friday (on Neal Cavuto's show, I think) saying that he also likes Hoffman but Huckabee will be giving a speech at some award banquet for him and it would be inappropriate for him to support Hoffman yet. Anyone else hear that?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:33 pm 
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I was listening to Neil's show and what Huckabee said but I would like to listen to him again. Has anyone found a replay of his segment? I would like to hear what he said about waiting to endorse Hoffman.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:01 pm 
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Grandville wrote:
I was listening to Neil's show and what Huckabee said but I would like to listen to him again. Has anyone found a replay of his segment? I would like to hear what he said about waiting to endorse Hoffman.



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:16 pm 
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As this thing has unfolded, perhaps it may be that Gov. Huckabee's situation is the best? It's somewhat complicated, as I've read all that's been posted about it. Since he didn't come out first for Hoffman, he would appear to be following Palin's lead (a la Pawlenty). If he goes for the GOP RINO, that is bad for him (a la Gingrich). By saying he supports what Hoffman stands for but won't endorse him due to a scheduling conflict that would appear to be a paid endorsement, he appears above-board (as opposed to just standing back for no clear reason, like maybe Romney?). If Hoffman loses, he wasn't 'on record' either way to get involved in local politics. If he wins, Gov. Huckabee did say he was for what Hoffman stands for.

I know it can be spun other ways, but perhaps that's how they'll frame it. And as other elections move forward - particularly Rubio's - this will be in the past.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:24 am 
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Huck's non-endorsement may also be hurting him with conservatives..he is losing support from those on Hoffman's FB page who now are claiming that Mike is towing the Party Line and is really a moderate himself...there are alot of disappointed Huck fans out there! Its too late now to just suddenly endorse, but i for one wish he would have.

Hoffman's FB http://www.facebook.com/pages/Doug-Hoff ... comments=1#s164927276989


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:09 pm 
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Gov Huckabee is going to shoot himself in the foot if he doesn't make the right decision about NY23. But if he does the right thing it could demonstrate just why he should be the one to oppose Obama in 2012.

First, conservatives and an awful lot of ordinary Americans of whom we need their support to defeat the Democrats' socialist anti-American agenda are clamoring for real leadership right now.

Failure to back Hoffman for whatever reason will alienate and antagonize much the conservative base of the GOP particularly those sympathetic to the tea parties, 9/12 and Liberty movements and drive them further away from the Republican party and into the arms of a rogue like Palin and/or third party groups. That is a sure recipe for defeat.

Second, taking a moderate or noncommital position will only validate the criticism of many during the 2008 primaries that Gov Huckabee wasn't a real conservative. Don't give those who doubted your conservative colors another reason to hold back their support in the future. Do the right thing now.

Third, I think the best way to consolidate and further establish Huckabee's current lead among prospective 2012 candidates is to demonstrate real principled, vertical leadership. Quickly and publically call on the RNCC to listen to the base and request that Scozzafava to step aside. Don't make any bones about it - get in there and do your best to establish your credibility both as a capable and trustworthy leader and a conservative at the same time. Don't appease the moderates or the party leadership, their popularity and influence is waning. Instead inspire the base, and inspire those who are frustrated with the status quo which includes many from the left and middle as well as the right.

If Republicans are going to win in 2010 and 2012 we must be able to bring in and invite enough support to have a majority. If the party isn't big enough to have a majority then it doesn't matter if you have "real conservative or principled leaders" because the Democrats will win and their agenda and ideology will be advanced instead of ours. While Newt Gingrich and the RNCC also make that point, they have done the "wrong thing" by supporting Scozzafava who is typical of everything wrong with the GOP. The result is the Republican tent is getting smaller because conservatives are abandoning it even though people like Newt and Steele are hoping to enlarge it.

As Gov Huckabee correctly wrote in his book of the same name, leadership is really about doing the right thing, even when it's difficult. The best solution would be to persuade Scozzafava to step aside, but even if she won't it may be necessary to lose NY23 in order to win the hearts and minds of the American people which right now are pretty fed up with both parties. And a lot of conservatives, independents, and libertarians are feeling more and more inclined to oppose both dems and repubs in favor of a third party. This could end up looking a lot like 92 and Ross Perot all over again. If we're going to win, we have to bring back the Reagan model of leadership and character that communicates a sound conservative ideology and inspires and brings out the best in all of us to work together despite our differences.

Leadership can and must do the right thing, I pray that Gov Huckabee will take this opportunity to demonstrate the kind of vertical leadership that I think he's capable of, and pleasantly surprise the Republican base, his supporters and his critics alike - lest they grow increasingly disenfranchised and go another way, which at this point in history could be disastrous for the country.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:53 pm 
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It's amazing to me that we are still debating this issue. Mike has given a very clear explanation of why he can't ethically endorse him since he is speaking at that fundraiser which he signed up for way back in the spring long before anyone including Pawlenty, Thompson, or Palin knew this would be an issue. Check out the other thread on this and the video of Mike on Cavuto that explains very clearly why he CAN'T endorse him. I wish he could, but it is clear that he can't.

Instead of wasting time posting hear about why you think he should endorse him, which he has clearly pointed out why he can't, take the time to post and get the real reason out on other websites attacking him the real reason why he can't endorse him.

I don't care if Pawlenty is endorsing. He is free to do so and good for him. He doesn't have the same conflict as Mike does. It doesn't make me think that Mike should now all of a sudden change his position. He is doing The Right Thing by the decision he has made. Peer pressure won't make him stray from what he knows is right.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:11 pm 
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Brently Keen wrote:
Failure to back Hoffman for whatever reason will alienate and antagonize much the conservative base of the GOP particularly those sympathetic to the tea parties, 9/12 and Liberty movements and drive them further away from the Republican party and into the arms of a rogue like Palin and/or third party groups. That is a sure recipe for defeat.
First of all, I think any fair-minded appraisal of the situation would not lead to the conclusion that Huckabee doesn't back Hoffman. It just isn't a full endorsement or PAC money.
Brently Keen wrote:
Third, I think the best way to consolidate and further establish Huckabee's current lead among prospective 2012 candidates is to demonstrate real principled, vertical leadership. Quickly and publically call on the RNCC to listen to the base and request that Scozzafava to step aside.
Seriously, it's like there is a gun to Huck's head! "Look buddy, you're gonna endorse this guy, or you're out of the club!" I hardly think that's leadership.
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Don't appease the moderates or the party leadership, their popularity and influence is waning.
He should instead appease the loudmouths of the interwebs and talk radio crowd? Forget that Huckabee was one of the first to endorse Marco Rubio. Forget that he has clearly said that agrees with Hoffman on most of the issues, and that he clearly rejects Dede's ideology. Forget that Huckabee is due to speak to the Conservative Party of New York in Syracuse on October 27, where he will most likely speak positively of Hoffman. Forget that a Huckabee endorsement could be portrayed by Hoffman's opponents as a payed endorsement, thus casting doubt on the integrity of both Gov. Huckabee and Mr. Hoffman. No, none of that is important. Huckabee must endorse now, and loudly...or he is not a 'true conservative."


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:28 pm 
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He should instead appease the loudmouths of the interwebs and talk radio crowd? Forget that Huckabee was one of the first to endorse Marco Rubio. Forget that he has clearly said that agrees with Hoffman on most of the issues, and that he clearly rejects Dede's ideology. Forget that Huckabee is due to speak to the Conservative Party of New York in Syracuse on October 27, where he will most likely speak positively of Hoffman. Forget that a Huckabee endorsement could be portrayed by Hoffman's opponents as a payed endorsement, thus casting doubt on the integrity of both Gov. Huckabee and Mr. Hoffman. No, none of that is important. Huckabee must endorse now, and loudly...or he is not a 'true conservative."


Christopher -- you have me cheering for you all evening long!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:30 am 
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Does anyone remember if Gov. Huckabee has ever endorsed a politician (officially) from a party other than the Republican party?

It is my impression that he may admire or speak highly of other conservatives, but as a member of the Republican Party, he has chosen to endorse conservatives from among the party. He does not give carte blanche approval of all Republicans, however. Yet he is loyal inasmuch as possible to his party.

I don't think it really works well for politicians to endorse across party lines. If Huckabee were to endorse Conservative Party or other party candidates, that would weaken his ability to gain Republican support. He has been a loyalist to the party, although not to all the candidates (especially the RINO's). However, he can and will work together on certain projects or belong to organizations together with conservatives from other parties. But we cannot expect him to be disloyal to his own party.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:02 pm 
And it's official...

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2009/10/2 ... g-hoffman/

RedState wrote:
REDSTATE EXCLUSIVE: Tim Pawlenty Endorses Doug Hoffman

Posted by Erick Erickson (Profile)

Monday, October 26th at 3:01PM EDT

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With polling now showing NY-23 has come down to a two man race between Hoffman and Owens, the Democrat, momentum is clearly in Hoffman’s favor.

Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota is now adding to the momentum becoming the first sitting Republican Governor to endorse Hoffman. This comes on the heels of Sarah Palin’s endorsement from last week.

What makes this stand out even more than the Palin endorsement is that Pawlenty has not been seen as diverging with the Republican establishment. He’s not seen as the maverick that Palin is.

But Pawlenty has a huge amount of stature inside the Republican establishment, more so than Palin. That he is now willing to come out in favor of Hoffman is going to resonate among the Republican establishment in ways Palin’s endorsement will not.

And it now sets up battle lines for 2012. I still don’t think Palin is going to run, but even were she, we now have two candidates, a former Governor and Vice Presidential candidate and a sitting Governor and potential 2012 candidate breaking with the establishment in favor of the Republican base.

Governor Pawlenty sent RedState the following statement:

“We cannot send more politicians to Washington who wear the Republican jersey on the campaign trail, but then vote like Democrats in Congress on issues like card check and taxes. After reviewing the candidates’ positions, I’m endorsing Doug Hoffman in New York’s special election. Doug understands the federal government needs to quit spending so much, will vote against tax increases, and protect key values like the right to vote in private in union elections.”

Now we’re going to have to ask where the other 2012 candidates are. Who else is willing to be brave and bold. Who else will defy the beltway and stand with the heartland? Conservative activists have legitimately made New York’s 23rd Congressional District a Hill to Die On. The GOP establishment must know that it will either win with us or lose without us.

And now we are seeing who is willing to stand with us on this Hill. Tim Pawlenty, today, proves he is willing to put principle above party. Tim Pawlenty is willing to stand with the Republican Base, the tea party activists, and the Conservative Movement.

When 2012 rolls around, Palin and Pawlenty’s boldness will be remembered. Which of the other potential candidates will side with conservatives over the beltway establishement?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:43 pm 
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Notice Pawlenty's statement highlighted by RedState:

Quote:
“We cannot send more politicians to Washington who wear the Republican jersey on the campaign trail, but then vote like Democrats in Congress on issues like card check and taxes. After reviewing the candidates’ positions, I’m endorsing Doug Hoffman in New York’s special election. Doug understands the federal government needs to quit spending so much, will vote against tax increases, and protect key values like the right to vote in private in union elections.”


Nice to know that the linchpin holding the conservative movement together is anti-tax and anti-union policy. :roll: :roll:

In the name of "conservatism" social conservatives are once again being rallied to die on the hill of our most cherished "shared values" which are being defined as the anti-tax and pro-business agenda of the fiscal wing on the Republican Party. Ironically many of these same groups (like the CoC) supported the bailout, TARP, and stimulus and are still in business today thanks to their raid on the public treasury (but I suppose that was the only way to preserve our free-market :roll: ).

Pardon my appeal to my own post but I remain highly sceptical of who "wins" if/when Hoffman becomes the beau ideal of conservatism and the model of "grass roots" activism.

As stated earlier:

Quote:
I think the worst part of this whole mess is the degree to which NY 23 has been amplified into some sort of strength/litmus test for conservatisim and its deffinition. The only potential winners in this will be those groups who have used this sound and fury to inflate their image as kingmakers and patriotic revolutionaries.


Here is RedStates' summary of the "lesson" to learn from NY 23:

Quote:
Conservative activists have legitimately made New York’s 23rd Congressional District a Hill to Die On. The GOP establishment must know that it will either win with us or lose without us.

And now we are seeing who is willing to stand with us on this Hill.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:45 pm 
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But isn't Hoffman pro-life?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:02 am 
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But isn't Hoffman pro-life?


That's certainly the lead when he's pitched to socons.

It's just not showing up in the actual NY 23 race nor among the stated objectives of his endorsers.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:37 am 
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But if the area is heavily pro-"choice" as someone said, wouldn't that likely be more of a strategic emphasis on the issues that are believed will help him win?

I have received emails from several pro-life organizations asking people to help support Hoffman; I would be more than a little surprised if they had not done some research on the guy first.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:37 am 
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I've clearly failed to make my point.

I do not believe Hoffman is pro-choice. I believe him when he says he is pro-life and I believe the pro-life groups who should endorse him.

My skepticism arises in what he will champion and what "Hill to die for" in the competition for his energies and political capital will he allocate his assets?

RedState and his public endorsers say he will "die" for no tax increases and no union card check. Fine. Anything else? I mean I'm with em on those but they aren't my "Hill." If it were a simple equation of 50% taxes and union shops inorder to prevent the slaughter of the unborn I'd take it in a first heartbeat in the 12th week. I can compromise on taxes and unions frankly though I think both are already costing more than they are worth. Morality in this country however is harder for me to be sanquine about. In some ways my concern is of the same type as fiscal purists. They'd rather have a clear enemy in Congress to defeat the next round than an uncertain friend. I can't go that far and so I want Hoffman over Owens or Dede S. But I can't get too enthusiatic about him (especially since I still think he won't win). But if he does what will be most important to Hoffman based on his voting record? He has none. So what is he running on IN the district (and not just in press releases outside the district).
Political capital is a scarce thing and elected officials are loathe to spend it on things they did not campaign.

I fear (IF elected) he will be another pro-business, anti-tax conservative who, carried to office in large measure by social conservatives, will die for the interests (literally in the financial sense) of groups like CFG and the Chamber of Commerce but scarcely risk a scar for the cause of the unborn. As much as I loved Reagan (and would love to dig up the man if it would work) he never actually delivered on his pro-life promises though he had enough time and SCOTUS appointments to do so. In the end there were greater concerns. More pressing. More immediate. More urgent. More pocketbook. I think what scares the establishment GOP most about Huck is they think he really will expend political capital for social issues. I hope we all get to see that they have reason.

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