Hucks Army - Faith. Family. Freedom. [Grassroots] JOIN HUCKS ARMY | GET INVOLVED | FUNDRAISING | LINKS | LEADERSHIP | ABOUT
It is currently Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:41 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:43 pm 
Offline
***** General

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:12 pm
Posts: 4153
Likes: 307
Liked: 525
I'm sure that everyone here doesn't agree with this perspective, but, this is an increasingly widely held viewpoint. I don't think the whole birther crisis has helped either the President, the Republican Party, or conservatives as a whole.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/04/28/juan-williams-truth-trump-obama-race-card/

Quote:
Did Whoppi play the race card on Wednesday? Yes, she did. And Whoopi Goldberg announced she was playing it while motioning with her hands as if she had a whole deck of race cards to play.

Whoopi, on ABC’s “The View,” called out the “birthers,” on racism after the morning's dramatic White House news conference and release of President Obama’s long-form birth certificate. The public display of the document should have ended all doubts: Barack Obama is indeed a natural born citizen of the United States and eligible to be our president.

But Donald Trump, who has been riding the “birther” bandwagon to the front of candidates for GOP nomination for president, still won’t let it go. And he persisted with such slime-ball tactics that he gave Whoopi reason to put the race card squarely on the table.

Trump is now questioning whether the president was smart enough to write a best-selling book. He is asking if Obama is too busy playing basketball to handle the economy. Trump is doubting whether Obama had the grades to get Harvard Law School and suggesting he is just an affirmative action token.

It is hard not to see a pattern in these questions. The president is not smart enough to write his own book, he is not smart enough to get into Harvard, and he spends his time playing basketball. The pattern sure looks racial, smells racial, and invites Whoopi to call a spade a spade.

Sadly, seeing the president’s long-form birth certificate – he produced the usual short-form three years ago – will not be enough for some of the millions of Americans who tell pollster they don’t believe the president was born in the USA.

Some will undoubtedly believe the long-form birth certificate is another forgery and part of the elaborate conspiracy to conceal the “truth” about the president’s past. Recent polls showed a quarter of all Americans doubting the President was born in the USA. Nearly half of Republicans shared that view and practically everyone in the Tea Party.

How did this mass paranoid delusion get started?

The truth is that this national disgrace was never really about birth certificates or citizenship. It is about the fact that no matter what his policies – and there is a lot to argue with in his policies and leadership style – some people appear to never have accepted a president who is very smart, patriotic, hard-working and a family guy. They cannot accept that he is different from the majority of the American people in terms of his name, his life experience and yes, his race.

In the “birther” mindset, different equals dangerous. They can’t say this out loud because they will then be called out for naked racism. So they have stoked doubt about the president’s birth certificate, speaking in coded language and tacitly indulging the race-baiting.

And too many Republican officials saw political advantage in feeding the fire. They have repeatedly and sadly refused to condemn this contemptible and un-American behavior.

House Speaker John Boehner, the leading Republican in Washington, let the mob have its way: “It is not my job to tell the American people what to think,” he said.

And others top Republicans and talk show hosts have winked and kept a sly smile, while asking why is it such a big deal for the president to produce the long-form of his birth certificate.

That disgraceful coded language led many Americans down the path of disparaging, even disliking the president on the basis of innuendo.

Reverend Jesse Jackson is no friend to President Obama. During the 2008 campaign, Jackson was famously caught off-microphone saying the president was “talking down to black people” and that he wanted to “cut his n-ts off.”

However, Jackson had it essentially right when he told Politico yesterday that "Any discussion of his birthplace is a code word. ..It calls upon ancient racial fears."

Marc Morial, the president of the Urban League and the former mayor of New Orleans mayor, blasted Trump in an interview with Politico, "There's a lot of people that I've talked to [who] instinctively think that he's using the issue as a proxy for race...I don't know if it has resonance in the Republican Party but I certainly think it has resonance in certain far right elements of the American public."

"It's like a modern day Salem witch trial -- because there's no merit to it," Morial contended.

And South Carolina Democrat Rep. James Clyburn, the highest ranking African-American in Congress, likened the birther controversy to Jackie Robinson's experience in Major League Baseball. He told USA Today Thursday, that Obama "has not put the issue to bed...all he did was lay out the truth for everyone to see."

The last fig leaf of doubt about the president’s birth certificate was pulled away on Wednesday. Donald Trump and the birthers now have to make a decision about what they will do from here and what the consequences of that decision will be -- not just for them politically but for the health of the country.

It is up to them whether they chose to accept the authenticity of the long-form birth certificate and move on from this dark period in our recent political history. Maybe we should ask for their birth certificates and question their patriotism if they fail to abandon this myth once and for all.


_________________
The Values Voter
http://thevaluesvoter.spaces.live.com


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:52 pm 
Offline
***** General

Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:59 am
Posts: 3061
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Likes: 15
Liked: 37
We have a Birth certificate now. The issue should be dead. The Average Joe who doesn't pay attention has been re-assured. Time to put this to rest and not allow the President or the Dems to use it as a political football. Let's focus on the real issues and how we are much worse off than we were four years ago. If we do that Obama is going to be routed. The President punted, let's not punt the ball right back to him.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:05 pm 
Offline
***** General

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:21 am
Posts: 2747
Location: Arkansas
Likes: 200
Liked: 653
First off I want to make clear I think the whole issue should have been avoided for political reasons alone (as Huckabee has).

I also think that no one can out race-bait the Democratic PRIMARY process (remember Willie Horton started in the Dem Primary) so if there was anything to be gained or actually unearthed in this it would have been nailed down by the Clintons in 2008 (another Huck take on this).

I also believe, and agree with the post, that there is NO WAY that the issues being raised by Trump (and some others) will be seen as anything OTHER than racially motivated by significant numbers of African Americans.

I also think that Trump is a vulgar opportunist and in no way a conservative or a Republican.

Now having said all that there are a couple of points I want to say to hopefully add to our perspective:

1.) This is NOT the only time that a President's eligibility for office, or legitimacy once in office, or legitimacy period, has been raised in our political culture. Chet Arthur (1880), Charles Evan Hughes (1916), and Barry Goldwater (1964), were all white men accused by Democratic political opponents of being disqualified for office due to their place of birth; Democrats called President Hayes "His Fraudulency" throughout his term, and Bush II the "Selected" President of the United States; Presidents Jackson and Lincoln (and others) were accused of being frontier bastard children.

Thus

2.) Politics aint beanbag and never has been. We have shown ourselves perfectly willing to use every ploy and dirty trick to solidify support by vilifying and railing against the "other" whether the "other" had a different skin tone or just different positions on a particular issue.

Which is why

3.) Race Baiting in Politics is still WRONG, depressingly commonplace, and equal opportunity. As a case in point related to Juan Williams (who I greatly respect and admire, have his books, and use them in my Southern history class). His comment that "in the “birther” mindset, different equals dangerous," can just as easily be said to operate in the hearts of all human beings. In every election since Washington D.C. was given the right to elect its mayor (1975) it has elected an African-American. That result reflects the demographics of a city that has been between 70% and 55% African-American over that 35 year time period. Why then is such an instinct to embrace those who seem familiar due to surface similarities not equally evidence of racial politics? Sadly, human beings often think that the outside of the cup is what matters rather than the inside. Trumps popularity resulting from nothing more than his TV projected celebrity, as well as his playing racial politics with these issues, both reflect poorly on our love of whitewashed tombs.

We need badly a post racial politics. It did not come even when a majority of whites voted for the first African-American President. Now it seems things will only get worse. We are headed for a very racially polarizing election.

The one piece of good news is that I know of NO ONE in American politics today (in either party) with more credibility across the board on matters of race and politics than Mike Huckabee.

_________________
"As for us, our days of combat are over. Our swords are rust. Our guns will thunder no more. The vultures that once wheeled over our heads must be buried with their prey. Whatever of glory must be won in the council or the closet, never again in the field. I do not repine. We have shared the incommunicable experience of war; we have felt, we still feel, the passion of life to its top."

Oliver Wendell Holmes



Post by Southern Doc has received Likes: 6 BDBopper, Craig88USC, gagoesforhuck, justgrace, sandra, WhatsNotToLike?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:28 pm 
Offline
***** General

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:12 pm
Posts: 4153
Likes: 307
Liked: 525
Excellent post, as always, Southern Doc. A few points I'll chime in with.

Southern Doc wrote:
First off I want to make clear I think the whole issue should have been avoided for political reasons alone (as Huckabee has).


Agreed.

Quote:
I also believe, and agree with the post, that there is NO WAY that the issues being raised by Trump (and some others) will be seen as anything OTHER than racially motivated by significant numbers of African Americans.


Also agreed. Not perhaps as much for the birther issue as for the "was he really smart enough to get into Harvard" stuff that the Wigged One has been throwing out there lately, but, both have lots of baggage and do the exact opposite of closing the demographic gaps that keep the Democratic Party in power.

Quote:
I also think that Trump is a vulgar opportunist and in no way a conservative or a Republican.


Agreed also. Asking if Trump is an opportunist and publicity seeker is like asking if the Pope is Catholic.

Quote:
Now having said all that there are a couple of points I want to say to hopefully add to our perspective:

1.) This is NOT the only time that a President's eligibility for office, or legitimacy once in office, or legitimacy period, has been raised in our political culture. Chet Arthur (1880), Charles Evan Hughes (1916), and Barry Goldwater (1964), were all white men accused by Democratic political opponents of being disqualified for office due to their place of birth; Democrats called President Hayes "His Fraudulency" throughout his term, and Bush II the "Selected" President of the United States; Presidents Jackson and Lincoln (and others) were accused of being frontier bastard children.


You know, you always jar my memory and make me want to ask questions. I didn't know about Arthur or Hughes. I did know that Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona before Arizona was a state (which, ironically makes three Republican Presidential candidates in the last fifty years who born either outside the U.S. or weren't born in a U.S. state.)

But several of these were considered "fraudulent" not because of questions about either their parentage or place of birth but because of disputes about the way they won contested elections (Hayes and GWB). I'll ask you offline about the others because I am pretty curious about these situations ... just being a history nerd, I'd like to learn more about it.

Quote:
2.) Politics aint beanbag and never has been. We have shown ourselves perfectly willing to use every ploy and dirty trick to solidify support by vilifying and railing against the "other" whether the "other" had a different skin tone or just different positions on a particular issue.

3.) Race Baiting in Politics is still WRONG, depressingly commonplace, and equal opportunity. As a case in point related to Juan Williams (who I greatly respect and admire, have his books, and use them in my Southern history class). His comment that "in the “birther” mindset, different equals dangerous," can just as easily be said to operate in the hearts of all human beings. In every election since Washington D.C. was given the right to elect its mayor (1975) it has elected an African-American. That result reflects the demographics of a city that has been between 70% and 55% African-American over that 35 year time period. Why then is such an instinct to embrace those who seem familiar due to surface similarities not equally evidence of racial politics? Sadly, human beings often think that the outside of the cup is what matters rather than the inside. Trumps popularity resulting from nothing more than his TV projected celebrity, as well as his playing racial politics with these issues, both reflect poorly on our love of whitewashed tombs.


That's a very good point. Living near DC, I sort of remember some of that history. I don't have a very good memory of who all the candidates were and which non-blacks ran for office during that time period. I clearly remember being really frustrated that Marion Barry, a clearly troubled and corrupt man, kept getting re-elected. In part, I think that the reasons for this may have partially been about class (people saw Barry as identifying strongly with the working-class areas of DC) than about race. Also, I will point out that a black Republican has almost no chance of getting support from black voters when running against a white Democrat - case in point 2006 (Maryland, Ohio, Pennsylvania) and even last year in Maryland. I think it's a complicated picture and there are a lot of reasons why people vote the way they vote.

Quote:
We need badly a post racial politics.


AMEN!!

Quote:
It did not come even when a majority of whites voted for the first African-American President. Now it seems things will only get worse. We are headed for a very racially polarizing election.

The one piece of good news is that I know of NO ONE in American politics today (in either party) with more credibility across the board on matters of race and politics than Mike Huckabee.


Totally agree that Mike has more credibility on the issue of race than anyone in either party. I think that he could certainly help to fix some of the problems that I've mentioned about the racial gap in politics. Also, I think a lot of healing can come about by just seeing the race baiters and others who try to use "coded messages" to communicate scare tactics - whether they be Democrats warning about the "racist Republicans" or Republicans using coded language to play on fears some whites have toward blacks - being rebuked by their own side of the political spectrum. I'd like to see the morons put in place and not given a pass just because they're on one team or another. Also, the blatantly racist incidents that happen from time to time - wherever they happen and no matter who does them - need to be stopped.

Unfortunately, racism, like every other sin, is fair game in politics. Some people will literally do anything to get elected and if there is a fragility in human nature they can exploit to gain power or a fear that can be utilized to increase voter participation and passion, exploit they will.

_________________
The Values Voter
http://thevaluesvoter.spaces.live.com



Post by TheValuesVoter Liked by: justgrace
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:18 pm 
Offline
General

Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:27 pm
Posts: 1165
Likes: 39
Liked: 41
I believe Pres. Obama is very politically savy. What if this document is a forgery like I have been reading on the internet...and not a good one either. Please consider.

1.) Why didn't Obama bring out the birth certificate rather than spend lots of the taxpayers money to defend himself many times in courts against people who believe he wasn't born in the U.S. as a "natural born citizen"?

2.) If Pres. Obama wanted this charade to continue to solidify the blacks to him again because of perceived racism, what better way than to have a fake birth certificate form made up that was so badly done anybody would say it's a forgery.

I wouldn't put it past the Democrats to come up with this to make the Republicans, and Trump look stupid if they continue this charade.

What does everybody else think?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:27 pm 
Offline
Major General

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:01 pm
Posts: 736
Location: Lakewood, CO
Likes: 118
Liked: 147
Again, if there was any validity to issue the Clintons would have found the evidence. He held out so that conservatives would look stupid and also because he was just irritated that they would ask when other presidential candidates weren't. He was, perhaps, petty but he wasn't hiding a foreign birth. That would have taken plotting in the sixties and no one even imagined a black man being president then.

_________________
Judith Martinez
"It is true poverty for a child to die so that we may live as we wish."


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 3:10 am 
Offline
***** General
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:47 pm
Posts: 4564
Location: Texas
Likes: 554
Liked: 523
I disagree that racism is at the heart of the birther issue - it's more like what might be called political opportunism (though I guess that's SDoc's point).

This is not people being afraid of someone who is "different". People are afraid of Obama because he's very much a socialist & they are afraid that he is going to irreparably change/harm this country. They are willing to grab onto anything they can if it will stop him. The birther issue smacks far more of desperation than racism...



Post by QuoVadisAnima Liked by: Miserere
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:46 am 
Offline
***** General
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:58 am
Posts: 3019
Likes: 0
Liked: 190
Im sorry but I feel Obama deliberately fueled the flames on this issue by refusing to just produce a birth certificate at the onset of this controversy. Why did he refuse? Why did HE allow this to get so out of hand. He is suppose to be our commander-in-chief...so why act so petty about the whole thing if it was just a simple matter of putting it out there. I don't think what Trump did helped the party, but I don't think Obama is, in any way, a unifier. As a matter of fact, he has made our country more divided than we have ever been.

And, though I am thrilled with Bin Laden's death, I felt Obama should have recognized, in some small way, President Bush's efforts to get Bin Laden instead oh heaping all the credit and praise on himself. This should have been ONE time we could have a bi-partisan celebration and Obama turned it into "all about me."


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:53 pm 
Offline
***** General

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:12 pm
Posts: 4153
Likes: 307
Liked: 525
nrobyar wrote:
Im sorry but I feel Obama deliberately fueled the flames on this issue by refusing to just produce a birth certificate at the onset of this controversy. Why did he refuse? Why did HE allow this to get so out of hand. He is suppose to be our commander-in-chief...so why act so petty about the whole thing if it was just a simple matter of putting it out there. I don't think what Trump did helped the party, but I don't think Obama is, in any way, a unifier. As a matter of fact, he has made our country more divided than we have ever been.

And, though I am thrilled with Bin Laden's death, I felt Obama should have recognized, in some small way, President Bush's efforts to get Bin Laden instead oh heaping all the credit and praise on himself. This should have been ONE time we could have a bi-partisan celebration and Obama turned it into "all about me."


I'm not sure of the answer to this, but, has any other President - especially in recent history - been asked to produce an original birth certificate? Perhaps SouthernDoc may know the answer to this.

I also wish President Obama had made some small reference to the work that President Bush did. However, it does appear from the President's statement that the chronology that led to yesterday started with a tip that occurred last August. But it goes without saying that the struggle to hold UBL accountable has gone on for about thirteen years, across three administrations, and that is the result of a lot of hard work by our military and intelligence personnel. I'm also glad that President Obama personally called former President Bush to inform him. I think that it should be extremely gratifying to everyone involved in this pursuit.

_________________
The Values Voter
http://thevaluesvoter.spaces.live.com


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
POWERED_BY