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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 3:35 pm 
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What are Santorum's positives besides the social issues? Any? (Yes, the social issues are still primary for me - I just don't know anything about Santorum other than his social stances & Arlen Specter endorsement)


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 4:00 pm 
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A side of Dr. Paul many may not know. Written around 2007.
Since many are somewhat familiar with his paulitics (pun intended),
I just wanted to bring up the family values side of things.
BTW, I learned his brothers include two Lutheran ministers
and a CPA; his children, three Physicians and a Senator.


http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/paul-carol1.html

The Ron Paul I Know


Carol Paul
December 14, 2007


The story of our family would have to start with the man Ron Paul, who saw the American Dream and decided that it could be his – and now he wants it to be yours if you so choose.

Ron's grandfather came from Germany at the age of 14 with his father. After just six months in this country, his father died and he had to make his way in a new country with a new language. He became a truck farmer in a small town in Pennsylvania. He eventually married, and had four sons and one daughter. The second son was Howard Paul, Ron's father.

Howard Paul, along with two of his brothers, continued to run the dairy that his father started from the basement garage of their home. They had horse-drawn delivery wagons. Howard was able, with an 8th-grade education, to build a dairy with 20 refrigerated trucks and a modern dairy building. Ron's mother kept the books and raised five sons, who were all born within seven years during the 1930's.

Ron was the third son of Howard and Margaret Paul, and was brought up with the ethic that you worked six days a week and went to church on the seventh. Ron's first job at age 5 was to watch his uncle wash the bottles and put them on a conveyer belt. He got a penny for every dirty bottle that he found. He was serious about his job and was very proud that he could help.





Ron delivered newspapers in grade school early in the morning. He had to put the newspapers inside the screen doors and not just throw them in the yard. And speaking of yards, he mowed a lot of lawns, and he didn't have a self-propelled lawnmower. He paid for his first year of college with newspaper and lawn-mowing money.

During high school, Ron worked in a drug store – his brothers said he worked there so he could eat ice cream whenever he wanted it – but he learned a lot about business and pharmacy that helped in years to come. He also had a part-time job painting the school in the summer and delivering furniture for a local store. In college, he delivered laundry, and he even delivered mail during the Christmas holidays.

I came into the picture about 1952 when Ron was my escort to my 16th birthday party. Don't tell anyone – but I asked him... actually my birthday is February 29th and it was a Sadie Hawkins-type party where the girls asked the boys... and I asked him.

Ron was a track star in high school, winning state as a junior in the 220-yard dash and in the 440. He ran the 100 in 9.8, and that was pretty fast for the early 1950s. He was also on the wrestling team. He was president of the student council and an honor student while working and participating in sports.

A serious knee injury took him out of major track (he beat one young man who went to the Olympics), but he added swimming for therapy and soon became a member of the college swim team. He was offered a full college scholarship to run track but did not accept it, feeling he might not be able to regain his speed. To this day he exercises with bicycle riding, walking, and swimming, and feels lucky that he can do these sports.

We went away to college (different colleges in different states), but always kept in touch. On February 1, 1957, we married in a beautiful ceremony with the bridesmaids carrying armloads of red roses. The flower girl wore a white dress and sprinkled rose petals down the aisle. A fraternity brother of Ron's sang "The Wedding Prayer" and the "Lord's Prayer." Of course, both are very special to us today.

We spent his last semester in college married, and living on the third floor of an old home in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. I worked as secretary to the faculty and attended some evening classes with Ron. For one year Ron was manager of the college coffee shop called "The Bullet Hole." He worked as steward and house manager for his fraternity, and had a small scholastic scholarship to help finance his way through college.





After college, we headed to Durham, North Carolina, where Ron attended Duke University School of Medicine. I worked as a medical secretary, and our first two children were born at Duke. We had a tiny little blue frame house that my grandmother called the "Doll House." We thought it was wonderful.

We were able to buy a registered collie for our big backyard, and she helped raise our first two children. Actually, she got us home one Thanksgiving because she had a litter of puppies – and we were able to sell one for $35, which gave us enough money for gas to drive home so the family could see our two beautiful children.

After medical school, we lived in Detroit, Michigan, where Ron did an internship and one year of an Internal Medicine Residency. I ran a dancing school in the basement of our home and taught ballet and tap dancing and baton twirling. Just to tell you what kind of budget we were on, the dancing school paid for the newspaper and for extra expenses we had when a month had five weeks!

When the Cuban Crisis came, Ron answered his country's call and became a flight surgeon in the United States Air Force. We received orders to move to San Antonio, Texas. On our way to Texas, we stopped in Pennsylvania long enough to have our third child delivered. Then we gathered up our kids and dogs and took off for Texas.

Arriving with three children from ages 4 to 3 weeks old, we loved Texas immediately. Finding out we didn't have to bother with snowsuits, mittens, and boots was an extra gift.

Even when Ron was in the military, we kept working. I learned to cake decorate, which I have put to good use over the past years. And Ron learned to fly a plane, and he worked extra emergency-room duty. They were fun-filled years.





We spent Ron's tour of duty in San Antonio. When his tour was up, he completed his OB/GYN medical training, but he did stay in the Air National Guard for several years. He always believed that America should be ready to defend her borders.

Then in 1968, on July 3rd we arrived in Brazoria County, Texas, and that has been our home since that day. Ron has delivered more than 4,000 babies, and we have been married for more than 50 years. We've raised a family of five children, and they have given us eighteen beautiful grandchildren, and one great-grandchild. We have friends all over the State of Texas as well as friends throughout the United States who believe in limited government. That in itself is a testimony to a great and humble man.

So the American Dream came true for a boy who delivered newspapers, a teen-ager who mowed lawns, delivered milk, delivered furniture, delivered laundry, and delivered mail, and for a man who then delivered babies. Now that dream continues with a man who is trying to deliver the message that freedom works and that true patriotism must not grow weak in the hearts of Americans, so that we can hang on to our Republic, for which the Founders gave their last, full measure of devotion.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 4:06 pm 
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QuoVadisAnima wrote:
What are Santorum's positives besides the social issues? Any? (Yes, the social issues are still primary for me - I just don't know anything about Santorum other than his social stances & Arlen Specter endorsement)


17 years in the Congress, twelve of them in the Senate.

Here's some stuff from his bio:
Quote:
....He was also an author and floor manager of the landmark Welfare Reform Act which passed in 1996 that has empowered millions of Americans to leave the welfare rolls and enter the workforce.

Senator Santorum wrote and championed legislation that outlawed the heinous procedure known as Partial Birth Abortion as well as the “Born Alive Infants Protection Act,” the “Unborn Victims of Violence Act,” and the “Combating Autism Act” because he believes each and every individual has value and the most vulnerable in our society need to be protected.
....
He served eight years on the Senate Armed Services Committee where he led the fight before the attacks of September 11th, 2001 to transform our military from a Cold War force to meet today’s threats. He was a leader on US-Israeli relations, authoring both the “Syria Accountability Act” and the “Iran Freedom and Support Act” which he successfully fought to pass in spite of initial opposition by President Bush. He also teamed up with President Bush to rid the scourge of AIDS and malaria from the continent of Africa.
....
Senator Santorum is now a Senior Fellow at The Ethics and Public Policy Center and the Friday host of Bill Bennett’s ‘Morning in America’ nationally-syndicated radio program.

But of all his accomplishments, Rick is most proud of his role as a husband and father. Rick and his wife of 20 years, Karen, are the parents of seven wonderful children: Elizabeth, John, Daniel, Sarah Maria, Peter, Patrick and Isabella.

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The times are winter, watch, a world undone:
They waste, they wither worse; they as they run
Or bring more or more blazon man’s distress.
And I not help. Nor word now of success:
All is from wreck, here, there, to rescue one—
Work which to see scarce so much as begun
Makes welcome death, does dear forgetfulness.
Or what is else? There is your world within.
There rid the dragons, root out there the sin.
Your will is law in that small commonweal…
G.M. Hopkins.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 4:10 pm 
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My two biggest problems with Ron Paul:

Paul promotes the legalization of all drugs, and of America withdrawing all of our current support of Israel.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 4:25 pm 
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Ron Paul is racist and an anti-Semite. He has tried to change his tune since the late 90's but his many quotes will be used against him if he is the nominee. I won’t vote for him.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 4:41 pm 
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I too have major issues with Ron Paul regarding legalizing drugs and withdrawing from Afghanistan, especially the drug stance.

Despite that, I'm still leaning towards Paul right now because he and Gary Johnson are the only ones who get it in terms of how much of an economic mess we are in. Paul wants to go back to a constitutional system of government that we abandoned long ago. Johnson is similar to Paul, except Johnson is pro-choice while Paul is pro-life. Therefore, Johnson is unacceptable.

I have issues with Paul to be sure, but the pluses of a much smaller constitutional government outweigh the minuses of the drug legalization and foreign policy.

At the same time I also realize that Paul is probably unelectable versus Obama barring some kind of national economic castastrophe. The change is probably too much, too soon for most people. I agree most with Paul ideologically though.

A second option might be Pawlenty. He's pretty conservative, more so than Huntsman, Romney, Daniels, or Gingrich. He's not as conservative as Santorum or Bachmann. I don't know much about Cain, so I'll have to look more into him. I was reading about him and saw he worked for the Fed, so I disqualified him based on that. I guess I'll give him another look. I'm just really hostile to the Fed.

The only candidates that I've completely ruled out from consideration are Romney and Johnson. A candidate who's not 100% pro-life will not get my vote. I'm somewhat skeptical of Huntsman and Daniels too. They might be too liberal.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:32 pm 
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jdbrown wrote:
Ron Paul is racist and an anti-Semite. He has tried to change his tune since the late 90's but his many quotes will be used against him if he is the nominee. I won’t vote for him.


So do you support giving over three times the level of aid to Israel's enemies than to Israel, along with all our restrictions that actually undermine Israel's security, as appears to be the case today?
Foreign aid is merely stealing from the poor in a rich country, and giving to the rich
in a poor country. Besides, we're broke. And an orderly phase down starting as soon as possible, seems better than suffering a currency collapse and having to pull back suddenly and without a plan. Do you think for a moment that at that point of entering Zimbabwe economics, a priority will be placed on getting all troops home safely, right into the laps of the public officials who ruined their country?
We shall see.
Why do you think Paul received more donations from the military than all other Presidential candidates combined in 2007, and more than all Republican Presidential candidates combined in 2008?
I heard an interview with the head of the NAACP from Ron's area, and he stated that he knew Paul for over 20 years and Ron Paul was not racist.
An article in some newsletter somehow associated with Paul written while The doctor was off delivering some of the 4000 babies is as lame than those who wrongly accused Mike of pardoning rapists and cop killers.
You of course may believe what you choose, and your vote is your choice.
I only am stating why I can proudly support the good doctor.
No, in the climate today, he will not win a Republican nomination, but as the economy careens down and over the cliff, he will probably garner as much as 15-20 percent in many primaries, and has actually polled best against Obama in a recent national poll.
And now that Mike is out, Paul, unlike all the wannabees, except perhaps (God forbid) Romney,will continue to be well funded till the end if he so desires, even if he doesn't win a single primary. Even 15 percent would clearly change the dynamics in this election. And he would even have the Sampson option of running third party, which he will avoid, but frankly if I were 75 year old retired physician that has suffered even a fraction of the attacks he has, I would probably go for it.
Be thankful he is a much better man than I.
Most here would not support him either, but in a respectful discussion, point out what they believe to be legitimate faults in his stances, and not resort to very shallow lies that have pretty much been debunked. If I believed a lot of what;s out there, I would believe Mike was for every conceivable tax, as well as ready to pardon every rapist and cop killer. I refuse to believe such misrepresentations and lies.
But those who do have dozens of articles and even videos they will link you to.
They are clearly untrue with respect to both men.
Everyone here brings up a lot of legitimate arguments regarding foreign policy and states rights, and truth be told I am probably closer aligned with his son, Dr. Rand Paul, but I have my reasons for what I do, as everyone here does as well..
I welcome the discussion of these issues and as you can see by the willingness I had to at least support Mike with my vote, you can see that I gave everyone here and Mike my ear and have changed some.
I state my views knowing I am the one out of the mainstream, but again, I have my reasons, which apply to me alone.
Most everything in this posting can be debated, and we can agree to disagree, but I an amply convinced that Dr. Paul is not a racist or an anti-semite and Mike does not support every conceivable tax, nor does he pardon every unsavory criminal.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:43 pm 
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Well, I don't think he'll be endorsing Gingrich. Here's something Gingrich's press secretary, Rick Tyler, said this to Huffington Post about the trouble Newt's gotten himself into recently:

Quote:
The literati sent out their minions to do their bidding. Washington cannot tolerate threats from outsiders who might disrupt their comfortable world. The firefight started when the cowardly sensed weakness. They fired timidly at first, then the sheep not wanting to be dropped from the establishment’s cocktail party invite list unloaded their entire clip, firing without taking aim their distortions and falsehoods. Now they are left exposed by their bylines and handles. But surely they had killed him off. This is the way it always worked. A lesser person could not have survived the first few minutes of the onslaught. But out of the billowing smoke and dust of tweets and trivia emerged Gingrich, once again ready to lead those who won’t be intimated by the political elite and are ready to take on the challenges America faces.


:floor

As someone on NRO pointed out, this is almost Sheen-esque.

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Or bring more or more blazon man’s distress.
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All is from wreck, here, there, to rescue one—
Work which to see scarce so much as begun
Makes welcome death, does dear forgetfulness.
Or what is else? There is your world within.
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:45 pm 
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Quote:
Paul, unlike all the wannabees, except perhaps (God forbid) Romney,will continue to be well funded till the end if he so desires


Bachmann will not have any trouble raising the $$$ she needs if she wins Iowa, imho. She can then go Huck's (previously) 2012 planned route of winning SC, FL, and a big Super Tuesday in the red states.


Quote:
he will not win a Republican nomination


Exactly, Ron Paul will not.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 7:15 pm 
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EricB wrote:
I too have major issues with Ron Paul regarding legalizing drugs and withdrawing from Afghanistan, especially the drug stance.

Despite that, I'm still leaning towards Paul right now because he and Gary Johnson are the only ones who get it in terms of how much of an economic mess we are in. Paul wants to go back to a constitutional system of government that we abandoned long ago. Johnson is similar to Paul, except Johnson is pro-choice while Paul is pro-life. Therefore, Johnson is unacceptable.

I have issues with Paul to be sure, but the pluses of a much smaller constitutional government outweigh the minuses of the drug legalization and foreign policy.

At the same time I also realize that Paul is probably unelectable versus Obama barring some kind of national economic castastrophe. The change is probably too much, too soon for most people. I agree most with Paul ideologically though.

A second option might be Pawlenty. He's pretty conservative, more so than Huntsman, Romney, Daniels, or Gingrich. He's not as conservative as Santorum or Bachmann. I don't know much about Cain, so I'll have to look more into him. I was reading about him and saw he worked for the Fed, so I disqualified him based on that. I guess I'll give him another look. I'm just really hostile to the Fed.

The only candidates that I've completely ruled out from consideration are Romney and Johnson. A candidate who's not 100% pro-life will not get my vote. I'm somewhat skeptical of Huntsman and Daniels too. They might be too liberal.


From what I understand, Cain went to work for the Fed in hopes of reforming it. By the time he left he became convinced that the problem was much bigger than the Fed, and that changes had to be made on the Congressional level. And that in its current state, without major legislative changes by Congress, the Fed was not fixable.

He's now a supporter of the Fair Tax and also believes that we should look into tying the value of the dollar to a commodity like gold.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 7:40 pm 
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Has Cain ever ran for any office before? City Council? Anything?

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:48 pm 
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Craig88USC wrote:
Has Cain ever ran for any office before? City Council? Anything?


I believe that he ran for Senate once, but lost.

The guy isn't a politician. He didn't really consider politics until after that time when he, as a concerned citizen and businessman, totally destroyed Clinton in a debate that was being broadcast everywhere on TV. He almost single-handedly turned the tide on Clinton's healthcare plan. After that, Clinton lost a lot of support.

After that, he started getting calls from everywhere to get involved in politics.

He actually wasn't planning to run for President. He had a talk radio show in Atlanta and sometimes filled in for the big name talk radio guys when they were out.

But there was a grassroots movement at http://DraftCain.org to try to convince him to run for President. So, with supporters pleading with him to run, he decided to make a list of criteria necessary in order for him to get in the race. I believe that all the criteria have been met by now, and he will formally announce this weekend.

Cain is not a politician. He's a problem solver and a leader.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:54 pm 
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The difficulty with that is if Cain does not know how to negotiate the political world, it is highly probable that they will eat his lunch - nothing will be accomplished. In the world of DC politics, he will have little political capital and may not have the savvy to know "when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em". Carter is said to have refused to work the quid pro quo system & that was supposed to have been a major reason for his failure.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 10:02 pm 
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I guess this would make me a poor Tea Party member but I really like and expect significant experience in government.

For president, that means the more experience at the federal level and the more experience in an executive capacity the better. So an ex-governor, ex-senator, ex-Secretary of State, ex-Attorney General, etc. is my ideal. :)

So Mitch Daniels might fit this experience bill the best. He has federal (Chief of Staff to Dick Lugar, Director of OMB) and state executive experience.

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THE TIMES are nightfall, look, their light grows less;
The times are winter, watch, a world undone:
They waste, they wither worse; they as they run
Or bring more or more blazon man’s distress.
And I not help. Nor word now of success:
All is from wreck, here, there, to rescue one—
Work which to see scarce so much as begun
Makes welcome death, does dear forgetfulness.
Or what is else? There is your world within.
There rid the dragons, root out there the sin.
Your will is law in that small commonweal…
G.M. Hopkins.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 10:20 pm 
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Quote:
I guess this would make me a poor Tea Party member but I really like and expect significant experience in government.

For president, that means the more experience at the federal level and the more experience in an executive capacity the better. So an ex-governor, ex-senator, ex-Secretary of State, ex-Attorney General, etc. is my ideal.



:like

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 10:43 pm 
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QuoVadisAnima wrote:
The difficulty with that is if Cain does not know how to negotiate the political world, it is highly probable that they will eat his lunch - nothing will be accomplished. In the world of DC politics, he will have little political capital and may not have the savvy to know "when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em". Carter is said to have refused to work the quid pro quo system & that was supposed to have been a major reason for his failure.


Cain is a pretty savvy and intelligent guy. And just by the way he carries himself, you know that he's not going to be pushed around.

Maybe he might not be an insider and familiar with the quid pro quo system, but thankfully there are Tea Partiers in Congress that will be able to stand with him that aren't into that system either.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 10:45 pm 
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Miserere wrote:
I guess this would make me a poor Tea Party member but I really like and expect significant experience in government.

For president, that means the more experience at the federal level and the more experience in an executive capacity the better. So an ex-governor, ex-senator, ex-Secretary of State, ex-Attorney General, etc. is my ideal. :)

So Mitch Daniels might fit this experience bill the best. He has federal (Chief of Staff to Dick Lugar, Director of OMB) and state executive experience.


If that's your personal requirement, then Cain probably isn't your guy.

I personally believe that a businessman has much more executive experience than a Congressman or Senator. They don't lead or manage anything. They're mainly lawyers.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 11:02 pm 
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WinningGuy wrote:
Miserere wrote:
I guess this would make me a poor Tea Party member but I really like and expect significant experience in government.

For president, that means the more experience at the federal level and the more experience in an executive capacity the better. So an ex-governor, ex-senator, ex-Secretary of State, ex-Attorney General, etc. is my ideal. :)

So Mitch Daniels might fit this experience bill the best. He has federal (Chief of Staff to Dick Lugar, Director of OMB) and state executive experience.


If that's your personal requirement, then Cain probably isn't your guy.

I personally believe that a businessman has much more executive experience than a Congressman or Senator. They don't lead or manage anything. They're mainly lawyers.


One of the reasons Governors are often chosen is because they actually have governed, worked with a house and senate, vetoed bills, had to make difficult choices to balance a budget, or signed a bill to raise taxes. This is really the only preparation (practical experience-wise) to be a chief executive. We get an idea of the kind of President they would make based on a record of governing. With President Obama, the experience he touted was "community organizer." That was not much of a resume for the job. Also, being a Senator for only a couple of years was also a very shallow qualification, especially when he was gone campaigning so much. I'm trying to remember a President who was the head of a company and not a previous office-holder in government who became President. Although, I think he Cain would do much better than Obama.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 11:10 pm 
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When it comes to what's good for jobs, I think someone with a lot of business experience can be better than government experience. After all, as conservatives we believe that the free market is what creates jobs.

And heck, our founding fathers did a pretty good job without having governed before. We've actually had a few Presidents where their experience was being a military leader.

Lincoln was a failed politician before becoming President. He had run for many offices, and failed each time.

When all is said and done, the most important factors are...
Character
Wisdom
Principles


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 11:43 pm 
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I highly doubt that Herman Cain will come anywhere close to winning the nomination, but if he does, you can bet that moderates and independents will heavily swing toward Obama. An ex-CEO of a fast food chain running the country? :joltin


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