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 Post subject: The Death Penalty
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:01 am 
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44592285/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

For all of my life, I have been pro-death penalty. I think and have always thought that there are people who do things that are so horrible that the only applicable punishment for them is death. But, for those who have been following the Troy Davis case (the man who was executed in Georgia last night), I am horrified at the possibility that someone who could be possibly innocent could be executed by the state.

I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of the murder case, which originated with the horrible murder of Officer Mark MacPhail in 1989. But I do know that the prosecution's case was centered on eyewitness testimony, which we know now is extremely unreliable. Furthermore, seven of the nine people who testified against Mr. Davis at trial either recanted or changed their testimony. One of the two people who did not recant is a person that some suspect of committing the murder.

I think back to the GOP debate from last week when a crowd cheered when Governor Perry talked about the large number of executions in Texas. Even though I have always been in favor of the death penalty, I am pretty disturbed at that response - it was pretty creepy. But I can't help but wonder if the state of Georgia could have put to death a man who was possibly not guilty of the crime that he was convicted of.

Also, thinking about some of the people who have NOT been executed for crimes that they confessed to sort of bothers me. Gary Ridgway, the Green River Killer, confessed to 71 killings and is serving life without parole. Charles Manson was convicted of mass murder before I was born but is still alive in prison. Dennis Rader, the BTK Killer, killed ten people, confessed, and was not by law eligible for the death penalty.

So, here's a few questions to the group:
1) Do you think that innocent people have ever been executed by a U.S. state or the Federal Government? Bear in mind that more than one hundred people who were on death row were subsequently proven to be innocent by DNA evidence.

2) If the answer to #1 is yes, what is your reaction to this?

3) What can we do to make sure that there is NO doubt that if a person is sentenced to death that they did the crime and that the evidence that was used to convict them has not significantly changed?

4) Which is worse in your mind? The possibility of a guilty person not being put to death for a capital offense or the possibility of an innocent person being put to death?

5) If the day ever comes when we learn that we did put an innocent person to death, what should be the consequences, if any, for the state and for the people involved in the decision?

I have never before really had any problem with the death penalty, but, I really dislike the way that the State of Georgia carried this out. I think that whoever killed Officer MacPhail should be put to death. But I have serious doubts about the fact that there were so many recantations. This one case is causing me to really put some thought into the way that we administer the death penalty.

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 Post subject: Re: The Death Penalty
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:23 am 
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Quote:
I think back to the GOP debate from last week when a crowd cheered when Governor Perry talked about the large number of executions in Texas. Even though I have always been in favor of the death penalty, I am pretty disturbed at that response - it was pretty creepy.

I've seen several articles from people who were there & they mentioned that the audience also responded similarly to a healthcare sob-story scenario that one of the liberal moderators put forth to the candidates. These writers, heard some of the comments & even the jeers, and said that the audience was responding to the blatant, & by now very stereotypical, attempt at emotional manipulation by the liberal media people. IOW, they were pushing back at the attempt to push their buttons.

Under our current circumstances, I am seeing a lot of "compassion fatigue" along with everything else going on, and I am inclined to believe it.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As for the central idea in your post: We most certainly have executed innocent people.
I believe that we should only exercise the death penalty for crimes that are
1. brutal & callous,
2. where the guilt has been established beyond the shadow of a doubt, and
3. where the continued existence of the person poses a potential threat to society.

So even though I believe there is a valid use for the death penalty in our society, I also believe that it should be reserved for relatively rare cases.

For an example of what I am thinking constitutes valid use: If Osama bin laden had been captured alive, I believe it would have been necessary to execute him because he readily & fully met all 3 of those criteria.


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 Post subject: Re: The Death Penalty
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:00 pm 
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QuoVadisAnima wrote:
Quote:

As for the central idea in your post: We most certainly have executed innocent people.
I believe that we should only exercise the death penalty for crimes that are
1. brutal & callous,
2. where the guilt has been established beyond the shadow of a doubt, and
3. where the continued existence of the person poses a potential threat to society.

So even though I believe there is a valid use for the death penalty in our society, I also believe that it should be reserved for relatively rare cases.

For an example of what I am thinking constitutes valid use: If Osama bin laden had been captured alive, I believe it would have been necessary to execute him because he readily & fully met all 3 of those criteria.

I agree with you. I think the death penalty is very overused in TX. In CO the threat of the death penalty is used to obtain plea bargains for life in prison more then we actually execute. A politician here tried to get rid of the death penalty claiming it would save money but in reality the state saves a lot of money on trials through the plea bargain process. It is a useful tool in the criminal justice toolbox that should be used sparingly and cautiously. You can't un-execute an innocent person. Dh says TX juries need more options so that fewer people are sentenced to death.

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 Post subject: Re: The Death Penalty
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:29 pm 
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one thought to throw in the mix of a deep topic is how do you handle the reality of God calling for His people to execute the death penalty in OT times? I would think that there were cases where innocent people were wrongly put to death back then

I do recoil at the thought of an innocent person being put to death

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 Post subject: Re: The Death Penalty
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:47 pm 
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I'm undecided on the general issue of the death penalty. What bothers me is when people who are opposed to the death penalty in all cases try to pretend as if everyone on death row is really innocent as a means toward the end of no executions.

But in this Troy Davis case, the problem isn't the death penalty so much as these witnesses who either lied under oath or lied subsequently for whatever reason (and were telling the truth on the stand). Our system depends on honesty and integrity, and if you take away the death penalty but you still have a society of liars and opportunists then you won't have made much progress to justice.

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The times are winter, watch, a world undone:
They waste, they wither worse; they as they run
Or bring more or more blazon man’s distress.
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All is from wreck, here, there, to rescue one—
Work which to see scarce so much as begun
Makes welcome death, does dear forgetfulness.
Or what is else? There is your world within.
There rid the dragons, root out there the sin.
Your will is law in that small commonweal…
G.M. Hopkins.



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 Post subject: Re: The Death Penalty
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:52 pm 
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One case that constantly comes to my mind when I think about the possibility of an innocent person being put to death is the case of Kirk Bloodsworth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk_Bloodsworth), which happened in my home state, and which was the first case of a person on death row being proven innocent as a result of DNA testing.

Had he been a death row inmate in the state of Texas instead of Maryland (where we very rarely execute anyone), he'd have been a goner. And politicians would have bragged about being tough on crime.

I find it impossible to believe that no innocent person has been put to death by the state - which, if you think about it, is the ultimate type of government intrusion.

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 Post subject: Re: The Death Penalty
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:05 pm 
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I used to be in favor of the death penalty as a matter of course, without really thinking much about it. More recently, I have been on the fence. The idea of the government taking someone's life, especially when we know the flaws in the justice system, seems repugnant.


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 Post subject: Re: The Death Penalty
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:14 am 
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christopher.wilkerson wrote:
I used to be in favor of the death penalty as a matter of course, without really thinking much about it. More recently, I have been on the fence. The idea of the government taking someone's life, especially when we know the flaws in the justice system, seems repugnant.
I tend to agree with you. However, the idea of the state not ending the life of a clearly guilty murderer is repugnant to me also. Take for example, the Norwegian mass killer who took the lives of 77 people in July. He will get no more than 21 years in jail. That makes me want to puke. If ever there was a case where the death penalty was clearly warranted, that is it and the Norwegian justice system is unwilling and unable to do the right thing.

The reality is we live in a fallen world and perfect justice is just not possible.

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 Post subject: Re: The Death Penalty
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:43 am 
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The ever charming Ann Coulter claims that the Davis story is just more attempted manipulation by the liberal media. She does sound as though she is arguing from facts, but I don't know the case well enough to be able to tell. If his case has received judicial review by "more than a dozen courts", does that mean his guilt was reasonably established? Well, that depends on what the courts were reviewing, doesn't it?
Quote:

Mumia's The Word

by Ann Coulter

09/21/2011

For decades, liberals tried persuading Americans to abolish the death penalty, using their usual argument: hysterical sobbing.

Only when the media began lying about innocent people being executed did support for the death penalty begin to waver, falling from 80 percent to about 60 percent in a little more than a decade. (Silver lining: That's still more Americans than believe in man-made global warming.)

Fifty-nine percent of Americans now believe that an innocent man has been executed in the last five years. There is more credible evidence that space aliens have walked among us than that an innocent person has been executed in this country in the past 60 years, much less the past five years.

But unless members of the public are going to personally review trial transcripts in every death penalty case, they have no way of knowing the truth. The media certainly won't tell them.

It's nearly impossible to receive a death sentence these days -- unless you do something completely crazy like shoot a cop in full view of dozens of witnesses in a Burger King parking lot, only a few hours after shooting at a passing car while exiting a party.

That's what Troy Davis​ did in August 1989. Davis is the media's current baby seal of death row.

After a two-week trial with 34 witnesses for the state and six witnesses for the defense, the jury of seven blacks and five whites took less than two hours to convict Davis of Officer Mark MacPhail's murder, as well as various other crimes. Two days later, the jury sentenced Davis to death.

Now, a brisk 22 years after Davis murdered Officer MacPhail, his sentence will finally be administered this week -- barring any more of the legal shenanigans that have kept taxpayers on the hook for Davis' room and board for the past two decades.

(The average time on death row is 14 years. Then liberals turn around and triumphantly claim the death penalty doesn't have any noticeable deterrent effect. As the kids say: Duh.)

It has been claimed -- in The New York Times and Time magazine, for example -- that there was no "physical evidence" connecting Davis to the crimes that night.

Davis pulled out a gun and shot two strangers in public. What "physical evidence" were they expecting? No houses were broken into, no cars stolen, no rapes or fistfights accompanied the shootings. Where exactly would you look for DNA? And to prove what?

I suppose it would be nice if the shell casings from both shootings that night matched. Oh wait -- they did. That's "physical evidence."

It's true that the bulk of the evidence against Davis was eyewitness testimony. That tends to happen when you shoot someone in a busy Burger King parking lot.

Eyewitness testimony, like all evidence tending to show guilt, has gotten a bad name recently, but the "eyewitness" testimony in this case did not consist simply of strangers trying to distinguish one tall black man from another. For one thing, several of the eyewitnesses knew Davis personally.

The bulk of the eyewitness testimony established the following:

Two tall, young black men were harassing a vagrant in the Burger King parking lot, one in a yellow shirt and the other in a white Batman shirt. The one in the white shirt used a brown revolver to pistol-whip the vagrant. When a cop yelled at them to stop, the man in the white shirt ran, then wheeled around and shot the cop, walked over to his body and shot him again, smiling.

Some eyewitnesses described the shooter as wearing a white shirt, some said it was a white shirt with writing, and some identified it specifically as a white Batman shirt. Not one witness said the man in the yellow shirt pistol-whipped the vagrant or shot the cop.

Several of Davis' friends testified -- without recantation -- that he was the one in a white shirt. Several eyewitnesses, both acquaintances and strangers, specifically identified Davis as the one who shot Officer MacPhail.

Now the media claim that seven of the nine witnesses against Davis at trial have recanted.

First of all, the state presented 34 witnesses against Davis -- not nine -- which should give you some idea of how punctilious the media are about their facts in death penalty cases.

Among the witnesses who did not recant a word of their testimony against Davis were three members of the Air Force, who saw the shooting from their van in the Burger King drive-in lane. The airman who saw events clearly enough to positively identify Davis as the shooter explained on cross-examination, "You don't forget someone that stands over and shoots someone."

Recanted testimony is the least believable evidence since it proves only that defense lawyers managed to pressure some witnesses to alter their testimony, conveniently after the trial has ended. Even criminal lobbyist Justice William Brennan ridiculed post-trial recantations.

Three recantations were from friends of Davis, making minor or completely unbelievable modifications to their trial testimony. For example, one said he was no longer sure he saw Davis shoot the cop, even though he was five feet away at the time. His remaining testimony still implicated Davis.

One alleged recantation, from the vagrant's girlfriend (since deceased), wasn't a recantation at all, but rather reiterated all relevant parts of her trial testimony, which included a direct identification of Davis as the shooter.

Only two of the seven alleged "recantations" (out of 34 witnesses) actually recanted anything of value -- and those two affidavits were discounted by the court because Davis refused to allow the affiants to testify at the post-trial evidentiary hearing, even though one was seated right outside the courtroom, waiting to appear.

The court specifically warned Davis that his refusal to call his only two genuinely recanting witnesses would make their affidavits worthless. But Davis still refused to call them -- suggesting, as the court said, that their lawyer-drafted affidavits would not have held up under cross-examination.

With death penalty opponents so fixated on Davis' race -- he's black -- it ought to be noted that all the above witnesses are themselves African-American. The first man Davis shot in the car that night was African-American.

I notice that the people so anxious to return this sociopathic cop-killer to the street don't live in his neighborhood.

There's a reason more than a dozen courts have looked at Davis' case and refused to overturn his death sentence. He is as innocent as every other executed man since at least 1950, which is to say, guilty as hell.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46347


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 Post subject: Re: The Death Penalty
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:09 pm 
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Thanks for posting that QVA. I had been meaning to find something like that in order to get some balance on the issue.

Coulter confirms a lot of the suspicions I had.

When Justice Thomas and Justice Ginsburg agree on something, there's gotta be like a 99% chance it's because it's true. :)

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Makes welcome death, does dear forgetfulness.
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 Post subject: Re: The Death Penalty
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:44 pm 
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Miserere wrote:
Thanks for posting that QVA. I had been meaning to find something like that in order to get some balance on the issue.

Coulter confirms a lot of the suspicions I had.

When Justice Thomas and Justice Ginsburg agree on something, there's gotta be like a 99% chance it's because it's true. :)

Point taken!

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 Post subject: Re: The Death Penalty
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:29 pm 
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juditupp wrote:
Miserere wrote:
Thanks for posting that QVA. I had been meaning to find something like that in order to get some balance on the issue.

Coulter confirms a lot of the suspicions I had.

When Justice Thomas and Justice Ginsburg agree on something, there's gotta be like a 99% chance it's because it's true. :)

Point taken!



Then again they were merely considering it from a legal standpoint, so they were agreeing that all the many years of legal mechanics were sound.

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They waste, they wither worse; they as they run
Or bring more or more blazon man’s distress.
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All is from wreck, here, there, to rescue one—
Work which to see scarce so much as begun
Makes welcome death, does dear forgetfulness.
Or what is else? There is your world within.
There rid the dragons, root out there the sin.
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 Post subject: Re: The Death Penalty
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:23 pm 
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As always TVV has a well reasoned and thought provoking post.
Here’s my effort TVV to directly address your very legitimate concerns:
So, here's a few answers to your group of questions:

1) Do you think that innocent people have ever been executed by a U.S. state or the Federal Government? Bear in mind that more than one hundred people who were on death row were subsequently proven to be innocent by DNA evidence.

Yes I do. Mathematically speaking it is highly likely that some soul has been executed for a crime they did not commit. But I am equally certain that we do not know who that might be.

2) If the answer to #1 is yes, what is your reaction to this?

My reaction to this fact is that the issue of an “unintended” injustice in no way alters or invalidates a system of justice. Systems are designed to be as perfect as possible, but no system can sustain a scrutiny of 100% error free perfection. If this were so, no surgeon would ever open the skin of a living body as anything short of perfect success would be not only judged as failure but could even be seen as criminal. But we know the “intent” of the surgeon is assumed to be a desire to cure. He cuts in order to heal. When, and if, a surgeon is judged as either incompetent or genuinely wicked in purpose, we move against him with the force of criminal and civil law. But we do not close down hospitals as a result, we do not ban surgery as a medical means to obtain a measure of health in our society.

Likewise my concerns about the death penalty are centered on whether it is imposed using a high standard of competence, integrity, and accountable review. I believe that is the case today and the average fourteen year time span between conviction and execution is today twice as long as it was in 1986. During this span death cases are reviewed numerous times and ALWAYS are considered by the highest court in their respective states. This is as good as a human system can devise. I suppose the Cleveland Clinic, Johns Hopkins, and the Mayo Center, have some “bad” doctors, but at such a level of professionalism one usually has the greatest trust and the best opportunity to separate a quack diagnosis from the best current science.

3) What can we do to make sure that there is NO doubt that if a person is sentenced to death that they did the crime and that the evidence that was used to convict them has not significantly changed?

We cannot have such an assurance and no system of justice has ever expected such. There is no standard of conviction that requires “no” doubt, or beyond a “shadow of a doubt.” The highest bar is “reasonable doubt.” This has always implied more than a “feeling” or “hunch” and less than metaphysical certainty. Our system of justice is evidence based, but does permit, in fact relies on logical inference. We conclude a case. “Concluding” (Webster: a: to reach as a logically necessary end by reasoning : infer on the basis of evidence <concluded that her argument was sound>).

If the standard is “No” doubt then no one will ever be convicted of any crime. Furthermore, to convict someone of murder and sentence them to prison, even for a day, without evidence “beyond a reasonable doubt” would violate nearly 1000 years of English Common Law. We seem to believe that we can salve our own consciences and rest our doubts by simply imposing a less severe sentence for a given crime. This turns on its head our principle of presumed innocence. We convict, by reasonable inference, on evidence. Lacking such evidence, we acquit.

Attempting to find a middle ground may seem Solomonic but is actually as unjust as if Solomon had gone through with the dividing of the infant. The reason Solomon’s device worked was it provoked the truth in revealing which mother would forfeit her claim in this life for the life of her child.

I believe much of our current misgivings concerning the death penalty is due to the growth a secular materialist worldview among our citizens. These citizens increasingly believe that this earthly life is not the first, but the ONLY opportunity, to achieve even a measure of happiness. For the Christian there are worst things that can happen to someone than for them to be unfairly convicted and executed for crimes they did not commit. Disobeying God is first on that list. But the unjustly harmed will be restored under the Christian worldview.

This does not, or should not, prompt a cavalier view like the Spanish Duke poised to sack the city of Rotenberg, who when told by his lieutenants that they could not distinguish friend from foe allegedly replied, “kill them all and let God sort it out.” But those who do believe in One who judge the quick and the dead do not feel compelled to rely upon some fancied infallibility in their earthbound scales of justice but only need to know that they have done nothing to intentionally tip the scales.

4) Which is worse in your mind? The possibility of a guilty person not being put to death for a capital offense or the possibility of an innocent person being put to death?

Neither. For me what is worse is the innocent person who are killed later by the guilty person set free. Nearly 9% of all inmates on death row today were convicted of murder prior to the offence that resulted in their death sentence. Here are some of the more notorious cases which are too sad to post: http://www.wesleylowe.com/repoff.html These are the injustices that are not theoretical or mathematical. The execution of an innocent still remains in this country a theoretical travesty.

5) If the day ever comes when we learn that we did put an innocent person to death, what should be the consequences, if any, for the state and for the people involved in the decision?

Such an eventuality should give us pause as to the competence of the individuals involved, BUT, they too should be afforded the presumption that they acted in accordance with both law and conscience. If that were not the case, and such could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, then they would be guilty of various crimes from false arrest, to perjury, to false imprisonment. These are crimes on the books and police, prosecutors, and judges, have been tried and convicted in lesser cases of committing such. And perhaps some of those convictions are themselves – injustices. Let them appeal.

This is our system.

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 Post subject: Re: The Death Penalty
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:58 pm 
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Toby Harnden from the Telegraph:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyh ... %9D-crowd/
Quote:
There are few subjects that provoke as much smug condescension and shallow anti-Americanism as the death penalty in the United States. And the “debate” over the execution in Georgia last Wednesday of Troy Davis, 42, convicted of the 1989 murder of Mark MacPhail, an off-duty police officer, marked a new low.
The sheer emotionalism and partisanship of much of the coverage of the case in Britain was an embarrassment. On virtually no other subject could you find facts presented so selectively, conclusions so sweeping and reasoning so simplistic.
American campaigners against the death penalty know the buttons to press. Thus, we have statements like that from Thomas Ruffin, a lawyer for Davis, who said that Georgia had “legally lynched a brave, a good and indeed, an innocent man”.
We saw “I am Troy Davis” T-shirts being worn as far afield as London, the message being that Davis was somehow plucked randomly from the streets and arbitrarily condemned, perhaps because he was black.
Unfortunately, little about the Davis case fits this naïve picture. A jury of seven blacks and five whites found that Davis, who had a street name of “Rah”, standing for “Rough As Hell”, had been pistol-whipping a homeless man in a Burger King car park and had shot MacPhail dead when he intervened.
Again and again, courts confirmed the Davis conviction as being on legally solid ground. Lynchings were carried out by racist mobs rushing to judgement, dragging their quarry out to string them up from a tree. To describe a two-decade legal process that twice went to the highest court in the land as a “lynching” is to try to strip the word of all meaning.
Last year, the Supreme Court took the extraordinary step of directing that a District Judge scrutinise hold fresh hearings because seven out of nine eyewitnesses had supposedly recanted their testimony.
Davis’s lawyers declined to put two of those witnesses on the stand, making their affidavits of almost no value. Judge William Moore, a President Bill Clinton appointee, found that of the five others, two did not in fact alter their original evidence and two lacked any credibility. He found that one, a jailhouse snitch, had genuinely recanted – but that it had been clear in the original trial he was a liar.
Judge Moore concluded in his 174-page ruling that the “fresh” evidence Davis had gathered amounted to little more than “smoke and mirrors” and the “vast majority of the evidence at trial remains intact”.
Indeed, a reading of his judgement indicates that by not calling two of its recantation witnesses (one was waiting in the courthouse to testify and the other, the homeless man who was beaten, was readily available), the Davis defence team was preserving something they knew would damage his case in court if tested but if left intact could be of publicity value. There has never been a scintilla of evidence that Davis's race has ever been a factor in his initial conviction or in it being upheld.
The current Supreme Court contains four liberal judges, none of whom issued a dissent in the Davis case. Two of them were appointed by Mr Obama who, incidentally, supports the death penalty himself and declined to make any statement about the execution. Another justice, Clarence Thomas, is a black man from Georgia.
Not all American states have the death penalty on the statute book and many of those who do choose not to carry out executions. In recent years, the Supreme Court has ruled that the mentally retarded or those under 18 when their crime was committed cannot be put to death. Executions in the US are rare and declining – 42 were put to death in 2010 and 36 so far this year.
Two-thirds of Americans support the death penalty, a similar number to those in Britain. Which, as James Taranto has argued, runs counter to lazy bracketing of the US with authoritarian regimes: in fact, the US has the death penalty because it is not authoritarian.
My own opposition to the death penalty is principally because of the grotesque circus that the whole execution process has become.
It has the effect of elevating the murderer and diminishing the victim – the solemn recording of the last words of condemned men, the details of the final meal, the letters received from women around the world (a schoolfriend of mine from Stockport writes to a Death Row inmate in Texas).
I wonder, too, whether all this just makes the agony of victims’ relatives more acute. The actor Alec Baldwin used the Davis case to attack the MacPhails, stating on Twitter: “Wonder if the McPhail [sic] family will seek death penalty for US leaders who killed thousands of US soldiers and countless innocent Iraqis."
Most Americans were unmoved by the slick publicity campaign surrounding the Davis case, preferring to rely on the sober assessments of the courts rather than the likes of Alec Baldwin, the European Union (who one might have thought would have had other things to worry about) and people campaigning via Twitter.
If anything, the moral superiority of so many pontificating about Davis and the presumption of Europeans telling Americans how to run their justice system makes it more rather than less likely that executions will remain part of the American way.


Knowing what I do now about the so called "recantations," it's nothing less than an outrage the way CNN (only network I was watching) was covering this Davis case. All they would say is that 7 or 9 witnesses or whatever recanted their testimonies and then leave it at that. No details to speak of. Nothing from the judge's opinion about the case. What an absolute joke. Propaganda, pure and simple, and I'm sure a lot of people bought it.

_________________
THE TIMES are nightfall, look, their light grows less;
The times are winter, watch, a world undone:
They waste, they wither worse; they as they run
Or bring more or more blazon man’s distress.
And I not help. Nor word now of success:
All is from wreck, here, there, to rescue one—
Work which to see scarce so much as begun
Makes welcome death, does dear forgetfulness.
Or what is else? There is your world within.
There rid the dragons, root out there the sin.
Your will is law in that small commonweal…
G.M. Hopkins.


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