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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:08 am 
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Piers Morgan interviewed Cain tonight and talked about abortion.

"CAIN: “It comes down to is, it’s not the government’s role — or anybody else’s role — to make that decision. Secondly, if you look at the statistical incidents, you’re not talking about that big a number. So what I’m saying is, it ultimately gets down to a choice that that family or that mother has to make. Not me as president. Not some politician. Not a bureaucrat. It gets down to that family. And whatever they decide, they decide. I shouldn’t try to tell them what decision to make for such a sensitive decision."

Is this the last straw huckabee needed to get back in?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:18 am 
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Wow....Romney is going to be all over this by noon today. Was this POSSIBLY talking about a "life of the mother" scenario or rape scenario or something where there might be a gray area for some GOPers? Crazy.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:14 am 
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I heard that part of the interview last night and I did not like it. Maybe he misspoke or just didn't make himself clear, but, it sounded to me like one of those "I oppose abortion but it's not the government's job to tell people what to do" type of deals. It definitely did not sound like anything Governor Huckabee would say. At a minimum, he fumbled on the question.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:19 am 
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karrboy84 wrote:
Wow....Romney is going to be all over this by noon today. Was this POSSIBLY talking about a "life of the mother" scenario or rape scenario or something where there might be a gray area for some GOPers? Crazy.


I knew it! Here is the full transcript thanks to R412:

"MORGAN: Abortion. What’s your view of abortion?

CAIN: I believe that life begins at conception. And abortion under no circumstances. And here’s why –

MORGAN: No circumstances?

CAIN: No circumstances.

MORGAN: Because many of your fellow candidates — some of them qualify that.

CAIN: They qualify but –

MORGAN: Rape and incest.

CAIN: Rape and incest.

MORGAN: Are you honestly saying — again, it’s a tricky question, I know.

CAIN: Ask the tricky question.

MORGAN: But you’ve had children, grandchildren. If one of your female children, grand children was raped, you would honestly want her to bring up that baby as her own?

CAIN: You’re mixing two things here, Piers?

MORGAN: Why?

CAIN: You’re mixing –

MORGAN: That’s what it comes down to.

CAIN: No, it comes down to it’s not the government’s role or anybody else’s role to make that decision. Secondly, if you look at the statistical incidents, you’re not talking about that big a number. So what I’m saying is it ultimately gets down to a choice that that family or that mother has to make.

Not me as president, not some politician, not a bureaucrat. It gets down to that family. And whatever they decide, they decide. I shouldn’t have to tell them what decision to make for such a sensitive issue."

Still will have to clarify, but clearly Cain is saying he is against abortion but that he isnt commited to passing a national ban. This is in line with many of the current candidates....he didn't have my vote before this, so it doesn't make a difference to me....except maybe if it is spun poorly enough it will further open the door for Mike. Who knows.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:38 am 
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Here is the part that will really hurt him:

Quote:
His views on abortion, he said, should be seen this way: "I can have an issue on a opinion without it being a directive on the nation. The government shouldn't be trying to tell people everything to do, especially when it comes to social decisions that they need to make."


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/66432.html

That kind of libertarian view of what many consider a moral imperative will not fly.

You could insert ANY issue into that "logic" as a means of explaining a total retreat from the social conservative plank of the triad of modern Republicanism.

He has about 24 hours to walk that back and even then it will hurt him.

His best retreat is to assert that he was only speaking in regard to whether it is pratical/ethical to try to draw a legal distinction on rape and incest where there is such understandably diverse and fractious disagreement. But that policy should not be made by the exceptions but by the rule- such as: "my administration will advance the cause of Life, by example, persuassion, and legislation."

But the doubts are now planted.

If he is the candidate of ALL the tea party conservatives he can still keep his bubble inflated. If he looses the social cons (and this can do it) he only has the fiscals (and those are at risk with TARP support) or libertarians (who doubt him over the Fed and have Paul as a protest).

This most certainly could confront Huckabee with the moral imperative to enter the race to lift and carry the life standard with clarity, purpose, and some prospect for victory (as Santorum currently has none).

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:21 pm 
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Cain is being totally inconsistent with what I heard him say on Meet the Press or some show over the weekend.

There he said that he was pro-life but the family should decide in cases in which the life of the mother is threatened. That's what I took away from it anyway.

Here he seems to be saying the family should basically decide in all cases? Or is he saying that his view doesn't necessarily matter since just being elected president doesn't make his view the law of the land (which I think is always a good point to make, by the way)?

Either way, it's more evidence that Cain is kind of naive and liable to either not understand an issue or not understand that you need to be clear about issues when you're running for president.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:47 pm 
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He won't recover from this one......another opening for Huck.



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:03 pm 
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Think next Iowa poll will look the same?????
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... can_caucus
Reflecting national trends, businessman Herman Cain has now jumped to the front of the Republican pack in Iowa.

A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of Likely Iowa caucus-goers shows that Cain is in front with 28% followed by former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney at 21%. Congressman Ron Paul is a distant third at 10% followed by former House Speaker Newt Gingrich at 9%, Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann at 8%, and Texas Governor Rick Perry at 7%. The sixth place finish for Perry is a sharp decline from early September when Perry was the frontrunner both nationally and in Iowa. (To see survey question wording, click here).

Former Senator Rick Santorum picks up 4% of the vote and former Governor Jon Huntsman is at 2%. Another 4% would prefer some other candidate and 8% are not sure.

Only one-third of the caucus-goers (32%) are certain of their vote and don’t expect to change their mind. Among these voters, 30% prefer Cain, 22% Romney, and 17% Paul.

Among those absolutely certain they will show up and participate in the caucus, Cain leads Romney 31% to 18%. Many have criticized the Cain campaign for not having a strong organization in Iowa which is seen as essential to turning out the vote. According to such conventional analysis, Cain might be at risk of raising expectations too high and then underperforming.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:28 pm 
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Herman Cain just posted on FB "I'm 100% pro-life. End of Story."

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:41 pm 
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Sorry, can't be the end of the story - he either has a problem with his principles or his ability to articulate them - frankly, considering all the times this has happened, I'm leaning towards his inability to articulate what he truly believes. No wonder he admires Romney so much. :?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:50 pm 
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Cain seems to not have thought out his positions very well. They seem to be evolving as he goes along, thus the fair tax then the 999 plan, prolife then dependent on the circumstances ,now back to 100% prolife,etc. Makes one wonder what it will be if and when he is potus.



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:01 pm 
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Huckabeliever wrote:
Herman Cain just posted on FB "I'm 100% pro-life. End of Story."

Everyone's interpretations of his comments to Piers Morgan are wrong.......all the experts' analysis ripping aprt 9-9-9 are wrong..... he's seeming more and more flaky to me....


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:35 pm 
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Just posting what he said. Don't shoot the messenger! :lol:

Edit-I just don't know what to think of Cain anymore.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:55 pm 
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Im not sure why any of you or anyone else was excited about Cain...or still is. He has 0 days of political experience. You cant take a lifelong politician and expect him to run a business as its CEO and you cant take a CEO and expect them to be a great politician.

Cain is trying to walk a fine line here. He articulates his ideas just fine, but he doesn't want to lose any voters. This is one reason I like Santorum. When asked (in some verbage) if abortion should be allowed in cases of rape and incest, Cain fumbles over a response. Santorum? "Why should we murder the child for the crime of the father"...BINGO! This is one reason Paul has alot of supporters who are die-hard as well. He might have some interesting views, but he sticks to his guns.

You don't fumble over your speech if you are totally honest with what you believe in.



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:56 pm 
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Cain has no organization in Iowa to turn out the numbers he is polling. Right now he would get third at best and that is BEFORE his abortion-gate.

Cain just took the position of "I am pro-life but don't believe it is my place as prez to help the cause" that 60% of Iowa caucus-goers loathe. It is a cop-out and one could call him a flat-out liar when compared to positions he took in the past.

The new flavor of the month will take a tumble in the polls for this stumble. Rick Santorum may never win the nomination but he is the only one out there keeping the candidates honest on the social issues and all of them have problems with those issues to one degree or another. He will be on an extensive tour of Iowa and he will be taking a hammer to Cain's abortion stance at every stop...I am sure of it. This will leave the door open....heck, it blows the door off the hinges for Huckabee to enter.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:57 pm 
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Huckabeliever wrote:
Herman Cain just posted on FB "I'm 100% pro-life. End of Story."


Now that is as arrogant as it gets.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:58 pm 
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Huckabeliever wrote:
Just posting what he said. Don't shoot the messenger! :lol:

Edit-I just don't know what to think of Cain anymore.


I want someone that has been 100% pro life ALL of their life! I want someone we know will be 100% pro life for the rest of their life! I want the guy that went into politics in the first place to help promote life! I want Huckabee for President 2012 & 2016 :!: :!: :!:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:25 pm 
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Oh yeah....and a new Rasmussen poll came out today showing Cain leading in Iowa.

We will need a new frontrunner in 3...2...1...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:31 pm 
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Iowans Rock wrote:
Oh yeah....and a new Rasmussen poll came out today showing Cain leading in Iowa.

We will need a new frontrunner in 3...2...1...


Didnt that same poll have Perry in 6th? Shows what happens when the real candidate stands up and is vetted. The only two people who have distinct floors are Romney (never falls below the mid to high teens nationally) and Paul (never falls below 8% or so nationally). If you remember, Cain has already had a move up in the polls at the beginning of the summer. This one was just more pronounced. Que Newt Gingrich.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:11 pm 
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Cain's ability to bold face lie with a "you know what" eating grin and get a pass is second only to Obama.
I thought the loss of a lot of evangelical support due to his pro-choice statements would have showed up in the newest polls. Perhaps the latest polls were done before he waffled so. He is definitely more akin to one of the modern day whiz bang CEOs so popular these days, in no way a man of real substance like Huckabee. Mike knows there's more to life than the short term bottom line, and you don't make up your positions on the fly by gauging the audience's reaction, only to deny them when they prove unpopular.

BTW,

ON BOLD AND BALD FACED LIES-
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but...

The older form, "bald-faced lie", or "bare-faced lie" is one made that is recognized as obviously false.

The variation "bold-faced lie" is conversely applied to a lie spoken with conviction, as if it were the truth. The term bold can also mean a daring or brazen liar.

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