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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:58 pm 
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Please watch the video:



If you watch the whole thing, you will see that Herman Cain was only talking about rape, incest, and saving the life of the mother. He wants to make all other abortions illegal. He has said over and over again that he is pro-life.

There are plenty of other pro-life candidates who are ok with exceptions for rape, incest, and saving the life of the mother. I think all abortions should be illegal, but Herman Cain clearly is not pro-choice.

There is no perfect candidate. Even Gov. Huckabee is not perfect. Someone who agrees with you 99% of the time on abortion is not your enemy. We cannot refuse to vote for someone just because we aren't 100% in agreement with him or her.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:19 pm 
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This video is also worth watching:



While it's true that calling yourself pro-life while being ok with exceptions for rape and incest isn't uncommon, it shows a complete failure to grasp the fundamental issue at stake: abortion is the killing of an innocent human life. Period. How that innocent human life was conceived changes neither her innocence nor her humanity.

Cain can take this position if he chooses, but it doesn't give me much faith in the likelihood that as president he would be a true advocate for Life.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:42 pm 
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This scenerio is begging for a Huckabee run....If Governor Huckabee doesn't run this time out, he will never run, IMO. The time could never be better for him to win, but maybe he just doesn't want to do it. You couldn't blame him, really. He has it made financially, a great new home, his friend moving next door, fame and noteriety, as he stated "more people know him now than when he ran for president." It is a huge sacrifice to give up 8 yrs. of your private life to serve the country. Maybe Governor Huckabee is right where he wanted to be all along. He started out in radio/tv and maybe that's where he wanted to wind up. He probably never figured he could win last time out (though he convinced all of us he could.) But with only 13M$ raised and he is saying he needs 50M$ this time....you tell me....did he actually think he would beat Obama on 13M$? If not, maybe he wanted to get a position, just like he got, in the media spotlight. I really don't want to think that's true because I want him to become president so badly and believe he would be the best thing for our country, but we can't force him to run if he doesn't have it in him and I am afraid we are setting ourselves up for another HUGE disappointment.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:46 pm 
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You make some good points, cschande.

It would be ok if the media said that Herman Cain is not the MOST pro-life candidate in the race. I think it is fair to say that Herman Cain is not as pro-life as Rick Santorum or maybe others, but to say that he is pro-choice is completely false.

I see it as an attempt by the media to create a headline and grab peoples' attention in hopes of bringing down one of the more conservative candidates in the race. They only want Romney to win, which will ultimately lead to another term for their favorite candidate, Obama.



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:22 pm 
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cschande wrote:
This video is also worth watching:



While it's true that calling yourself pro-life while being ok with exceptions for rape and incest isn't uncommon, it shows a complete failure to grasp the fundamental issue at stake: abortion is the killing of an innocent human life. Period. How that innocent human life was conceived changes neither her innocence nor her humanity.

Cain can take this position if he chooses, but it doesn't give me much faith in the likelihood that as president he would be a true advocate for Life.


My problem is he isn't taking any clear position in this clip.

As far as the exceptions aspect of the debate it is important to always recognize that law enforces, proclaims, and helps to maintain, a moral concensus on an issue, it does not create that moral concensus. Therefore law that goes beyond such a consensus rarely yeilds a positive result and even historically has generated stagnation or regression regarding the positive evolution of a moral concensus.

The heart of slavery involved the denial of the full humanity of black slaves in America. That was the fundamental evil.

But even after war and the 13th Amendment (1865) few, even in the north, saw the implications of what "full humanity" might mean. North, and even by 1865 South, were now broadly convinced that slavery must go. They thought the issue now settled.

But it wasn't because full humanity means more than the absence of slavery.

Efforts toward Civil Rights only advanced with the 14th Amendment (1868) when it became clear that many would viciously attack the freedman and liberty would mean little without life, property, or a pursuit of happiness. The North, but NOT the South, was now broadly convinced that Civil Rights must be Federally protected for the 13th Amendment to have true meaning. They thought the issue now settled.

But it wasn't because full humanity means more than Northern bayonets protecting you from your Southern neighbor. Until those Southerns recognized the morality of the argument only public behavior could be curtailed and that only to the extent of Northern resolve.

So advocates of the full humanity of freedmen moved the 15th Amendment (1870) as a means of maintaining that political resolve at the ballot box through the power of freedmen votes. This effort was further propelled by the growing sense of weariness of the nation at policing increasingly difficult to enforce policies. Let the freedman defend his own interest. Let the South resolve its own social structure. They thought the issue now settled.

But this third Amendment was so far ahead of the political concensus that, though passed into law, it failed. Instead the disfranchisement and terror of the KKK restored the existing order in large measure because public sentiment now felt the North had gone too far - and increasingly the North agreed (I do not view these events as anything other than tragic as "full humanity" in fact did require the 13th 14th and 15th Amendments regardless of whether most folks at the time could see it).

So the law now said the former slave was fully human BUT reality in the form of his neighbors and the government that failed to recognize the law told him every day something else.

Abortion will only be reduced. It will never be eliminated. Comprehensive prohibition is the desired end goal - but history teaches that if it comes at the expense of the growing moral concensus against individual women choosing abortion the victory will be phyrric. We will have 50 states outlawing the proceedure but if the heart of the women most likely to abort has not been changed then few lives will actually be saved.

There is nothing more I want then for folks to understand, and overwhelmingly vote for, Life - in ALL cases. But if they are not voting for ALL cases they will not live under such a law for long.

Where the issue of abortion now resides in the American conscience, the best spokespersons against the rape and incest exception are those who have faced the that choice and chosen life. Anyone else will almost certainly lose ground with those they are trying to persuade which is why abortion supporters want so badly to frame the debate entirely around this most extreme of situations.

Whenever we engage on this we take that bait.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:19 am 
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I am totally confused by this. He is going to have to clarify this soon.

For what it is worth, I think he was trying to say that the decision of a rape victum to raise the child or give them up for adoption (I never heard adoption mentioned though scratch ) should be the family's decision not governments.

Likewise when the life of the mother is in danger.

Were parts of these interviews left out? :tinfoil It seems like big chunks of the discussion are missing. Really choppy thoughts.

I really like Herman Cain. If he is really pro-choice I will be very disheartened.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:54 am 
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http://www.hermancain.com/h

Quote:
Cain's View on Abortion Policy
"Yesterday in an interview with Piers Morgan on CNN, I was asked questions about abortion policy and the role of the President.

I understood the thrust of the question to ask whether that I, as president, would simply "order" people to not seek an abortion.

My answer was focused on the role of the President. The President has no constitutional authority to order any such action by anyone. That was the point I was trying to convey.

As to my political policy view on abortion, I am 100% pro-life. End of story.

I will appoint judges that understand the original intent of the Constitution. Judges who are committed to originalism know that the Constitution contains no right to take the life of unborn children.

I will oppose government funding of abortion. I will veto any legislation that contains funds for Planned Parenthood. I will do everything that a President can do, consistent with his constitutional role, to advance the culture of life."

Herman Cain-


This helps explain this a little more. He is operating on a level that is hard to follow to the average person.

Herman is quite a thinker. He did not succeed in his career (ballistics and business) by being lucky and swinging from the hip as many politicians can do in their career. Perry, anyone?

What gets him into trouble is he has a hard time explaining his complex views to the uncomplicated.

This could be his undoing in the General Election. The media will exploit this "weakness".

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:13 am 
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A media blogger who claims to know Cain says that all the hoopla is bogus - that Cain is one of the most pro-life people he knows, but then someone on Facebook said this about Cain
Quote:
He did not receive a prolife endorsement when he ran for Senate. He said he had 'exceptionS" -plural- to life.


I have not verified it, but IF it is true, it does make me wonder if Cain's pro-life views are evolving personally or politically (again a la Romney).


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:19 am 
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Update, according to Huffington Post:
Quote:
Cain said he thought the question he was asked by CNN's Piers Morgan on Wednesday night was "whether that I, as president, would simply 'order' people to not seek an abortion."

"My answer was focused on the role of the President. The President has no constitutional authority to order any such action by anyone. That was the point I was trying to convey. As to my political policy view on abortion, I am 100% pro-life. End of story. I will appoint judges who understand the original intent of the Constitution. Judges who are committed to the rule of law know that the Constitution contains no right to take the life of unborn children," Cain said in his statement. "I will oppose government funding of abortion. I will veto any legislation that contains funds for Planned Parenthood. I will do everything that a President can do, consistent with his constitutional role, to advance the culture of life."

But a Cain spokesman, reached by phone Thursday evening, declined to explain why the Roe v. Wade decision was not mentioned and would not say whether Cain thinks abortion should be illegal.

"The statement was very deliberate and exact," said the campaign spokesman, who asked not to be identified by name. "We don't have anything to add to the statement."

What kind of campaign is it when even your "campaign spokesman" has to avoid being named, and only speaks on condition of anonymity??!? :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:01 am 
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Well, I don't doubt that Piers Morgan asked a ridiculous, irrelevant question. I can't imagine that that man knows anything worthwhile.

Still, someone running for president should know how to address these issues clearly.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:15 am 
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The beginning of the end...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/20/herman-cain-abortion-comments_n_1023046.html

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:17 am 
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QuoVadisAnima wrote:
A media blogger who claims to know Cain says that all the hoopla is bogus - that Cain is one of the most pro-life people he knows, but then someone on Facebook said this about Cain
Quote:
He did not receive a prolife endorsement when he ran for Senate. He said he had 'exceptionS" -plural- to life.


I have not verified it, but IF it is true, it does make me wonder if Cain's pro-life views are evolving personally or politically (again a la Romney).


And this was written BEFORE abortion-gate.

http://theiowarepublican.com/2011/do-we-really-know-who-herman-cain-is/

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:09 am 
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replay the interview.He's not asked if the woman should carry the child but whether she should RAISE the child and his response is both consistent with his solidly pro life beliefs and his role as Pres. this was such a viscous attack on a man who has been solidly pro life all his life.He had just spoke up re same sex attraction(which was lost).Now if Mr Cain wasn't afraid to say same sex is a sin and that it's a chosen life style why on earth would he be afraid to state his pro life beliefs.The attacks questioned both his integrity and character. Santorum has been attacking Herman Cain from the beginning.Long before the Morgan Piers interview.I have never heard Mr Cain say 1 word against Santorum.Not one. So when this came out-twisted around-Santorum jumped right on it.That's politics.Sorry. I had the utmost respect for Santorum up till that point.It has been very unfair to Mr Cain.He donated 1 million of his own money to promote life in the inner city community of black kids. This has been unsung and he's not tooting his own horn on it. The vile and hateful things he gets from the left is unbelievable and now the attacks from SOME conservatives on top of it. The liberals must love it.The closer he gets to winning the more intense it will get-Mr Cain will fight on for what he believes and if we have our way he will win! What really disappointed me was how quick SOME of the other candidates were to pounce.Unfortunately that has nothing to do w/ how pro life they are but how opportunistic they are.There were 3. Perry,Ron Paul and Santorum.The others knew Mr Cain is solidly pro life and weren't about to use a liberal spin machine to get him.
BTW. No President has the constitutional authority to force anyone to RAISE a child-that is a decision that IS left to the woman and her family.The people that know Mr Cain best cannot believe the viscious attacks on a man they have known to be pro life all along.It's a shame what the media has done with this and worse what the OTHER candidates have done with this. The liberals are all over it.Worse conservatives have been all over it. It's why he said.Pro life.End of story.POST SCRIPT: We have to watch playing into the liberal media but we also have watch playing into ppl that want to use things for political gain.I would not support Mr Cain if i were not totally convinced he's pro life all the way.I supported Huck and voted for him on our ballot in the last election and that was because i knew Gov Huckabee was also solidly pro life. The liberal media and left is very afraid that Herman Cain is going to win the nomination and will do ANYTHING to take him out even let other conservatives do it for them.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:44 am 
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boxerpaws wrote:
replay the interview.He's not asked if the woman should carry the child but whether she should RAISE the child and his response is both consistent with his solidly pro life beliefs and his role as Pres. this was such a viscous attack on a man who has been solidly pro life all his life.He had just spoke up re same sex attraction(which was lost).Now if Mr Cain wasn't afraid to say same sex is a sin and that it's a chosen life style why on earth would he be afraid to state his pro life beliefs.The attacks questioned both his integrity and character. Santorum has been attacking Herman Cain from the beginning.Long before the Morgan Piers interview.I have never heard Mr Cain say 1 word against Santorum.Not one. So when this came out-twisted around-Santorum jumped right on it.That's politics.Sorry. I had the utmost respect for Santorum up till that point.It has been very unfair to Mr Cain.He donated 1 million of his own money to promote life in the inner city community of black kids. This has been unsung and he's not tooting his own horn on it. The vile and hateful things he gets from the left is unbelievable and now the attacks from SOME conservatives on top of it. The liberals must love it.The closer he gets to winning the more intense it will get-Mr Cain will fight on for what he believes and if we have our way he will win! What really disappointed me was how quick SOME of the other candidates were to pounce.Unfortunately that has nothing to do w/ how pro life they are but how opportunistic they are.There were 3. Perry,Ron Paul and Santorum.The others knew Mr Cain is solidly pro life and weren't about to use a liberal spin machine to get him.
BTW. No President has the constitutional authority to force anyone to RAISE a child-that is a decision that IS left to the woman and her family.The people that know Mr Cain best cannot believe the viscious attacks on a man they have known to be pro life all along.It's a shame what the media has done with this and worse what the OTHER candidates have done with this. The liberals are all over it.Worse conservatives have been all over it. It's why he said.Pro life.End of story.POST SCRIPT: We have to watch playing into the liberal media but we also have watch playing into ppl that want to use things for political gain.I would not support Mr Cain if i were not totally convinced he's pro life all the way.I supported Huck and voted for him on our ballot in the last election and that was because i knew Gov Huckabee was also solidly pro life. The liberal media and left is very afraid that Herman Cain is going to win the nomination and will do ANYTHING to take him out even let other conservatives do it for them.


*yawn*

Okay, let's say your "conspiracy theory" is correct and it is the liberals fault Cain can't convey a coherent message on being pro-life....he should do a bang-up job in the general against Obama then, right??????

Seriously....the pizza guy needs to go.....NEXT!!!!!!!!!!

And anytime time you need more then one sentence to explain your pro-life stance....YOU ARE NOT PRO-LIFE!! No more wishy-washy candidates on this issue!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:45 am 
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And if I see anyone compare Herman Cain to Huckabee anymore, I will go postal.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:19 pm 
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Wow those two articles don't look good for Cain. Having Bob Vander Platts against you in Iowa on this position is not were Cain is going to want to be if he wants to win Iowa. Things could fall apart quickly. Very interested to see the next polling in Iowa and see how much damage this could cause. Anyone know when the next polling will take place in Iowa?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:46 pm 
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Sorry, bowerpaws. I should have not taken my voter frustration out on you. I know you are doing the best that you can to find a candidate.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:07 pm 
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That's ok. this is a very important issue to many of us and i understand exactly how you felt when you wrote that.No problem.

PLS PLS people read this!!!! It's worth every word that is written:

http://www.sunshinestatesarah.com/2011/ ... mment-form

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:12 pm 
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Curious that G.H. hasn't tweeted a comment about this........


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:43 pm 
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IMHO and opinion ONLY Gov Huckabee knows Herman Cain well enough to know where he stands and maybe doesn't want to contribute to the life of this story.I think the Governor is pretty experienced at how this goes having been down the road himself.

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