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 Post subject: Santorum?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:52 am 
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I'm hearing talk of Mike's supporters starting to seriously consider Santorum. Have folks here been looking at Santorum as a possibility?


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 Post subject: Re: Santorum?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:36 pm 
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He's my pick and I'm starting to get involved in his campaign. I hope folks give him a good look and consider supporting him.


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 Post subject: Re: Santorum?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:47 pm 
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Seems like it. Seems like a lot of Huckabee Republicans who were considering Newt are retreating to Santorum.

_________________
THE TIMES are nightfall, look, their light grows less;
The times are winter, watch, a world undone:
They waste, they wither worse; they as they run
Or bring more or more blazon man’s distress.
And I not help. Nor word now of success:
All is from wreck, here, there, to rescue one—
Work which to see scarce so much as begun
Makes welcome death, does dear forgetfulness.
Or what is else? There is your world within.
There rid the dragons, root out there the sin.
Your will is law in that small commonweal…
G.M. Hopkins.


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 Post subject: Re: Santorum?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:44 pm 
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Miserere wrote:
Seems like it. Seems like a lot of Huckabee Republicans who were considering Newt are retreating to Santorum.


"Huckabee Republicans" are not stupid. Santorum is a great guy. He might even be the closest to Mike in his beliefs and stance on issues...but he CANNOT win a general against BHO so no TRUE Huckabee Republican would be retreating to Santorum.....Huckabee would cheer on Romney over Santorum if it came down to the two of them because he knows Rick cannot win. Santorum is a nice idea....he isnt a legit candidate.


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 Post subject: Re: Santorum?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:21 pm 
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karrboy84 wrote:
Miserere wrote:
Seems like it. Seems like a lot of Huckabee Republicans who were considering Newt are retreating to Santorum.


"Huckabee Republicans" are not stupid. Santorum is a great guy. He might even be the closest to Mike in his beliefs and stance on issues...but he CANNOT win a general against BHO so no TRUE Huckabee Republican would be retreating to Santorum.....Huckabee would cheer on Romney over Santorum if it came down to the two of them because he knows Rick cannot win. Santorum is a nice idea....he isnt a legit candidate.



So, in your opinion, I'm not a "true Huckabee Republican"?? That's an interesting statement.

I think you forget just how many times Huckabee Republicans were told during the 08 cycle that Huckabee couldn't win so therefore voters were wasting their vote/support.

I'm strongly opposed to that kind of rhetoric being posted here at HA.

It's one thing to legitimately analyze a candidate's strengths/weaknesses on issues and record, but "he can't win" statements have no place here (as far as I'm concerned).



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 Post subject: Re: Santorum?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:44 pm 
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karrboy84 wrote:
Miserere wrote:
Seems like it. Seems like a lot of Huckabee Republicans who were considering Newt are retreating to Santorum.


"Huckabee Republicans" are not stupid. Santorum is a great guy. He might even be the closest to Mike in his beliefs and stance on issues...but he CANNOT win a general against BHO so no TRUE Huckabee Republican would be retreating to Santorum.....Huckabee would cheer on Romney over Santorum if it came down to the two of them because he knows Rick cannot win. Santorum is a nice idea....he isnt a legit candidate.


I think a lot of us have different ways of evaluating electability. Furthermore, there are a variety of ways of weighting electability in figuring out who to support. So I don't think it's as clear cut as you're suggesting, since (a) Santorum's electability is a debatable question, and (b) how primary considerations of electability should be in our hierarchy of goods is a debatable question.

And maybe Mike would support Romney over Santorum on electability grounds, but until he comes out and tells us that, let's not put words in his mouth.

_________________
THE TIMES are nightfall, look, their light grows less;
The times are winter, watch, a world undone:
They waste, they wither worse; they as they run
Or bring more or more blazon man’s distress.
And I not help. Nor word now of success:
All is from wreck, here, there, to rescue one—
Work which to see scarce so much as begun
Makes welcome death, does dear forgetfulness.
Or what is else? There is your world within.
There rid the dragons, root out there the sin.
Your will is law in that small commonweal…
G.M. Hopkins.


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 Post subject: Re: Santorum?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:00 pm 
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Huck has made it clear that he would like to support Santorum - and we all know without even having to ask at this point that he would prefer Santorum to Romney - but even he has mentioned that Santorum's electability is an issue with his poor polling numbers this close into Iowa.

It is going to take something major to wake up social conservatives and convince them to coalesce around Santorum asap if we're going to have a realistic non-Gingrich non-Romney option coming out of Iowa. May God prove me wrong and give me the opportunity to eat my words, but I'm not seeing anything other than division out there so I don't see it happening short of a miracle.

The conservative movement is more fractured than in 2008 & getting as fractured as Christianity - divided we fall -- and fail.
Forgive my pessimism. I promise I am still praying!


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 Post subject: Re: Santorum?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:45 pm 
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I agree that the "he can't win" attitude is one quote that really shouldn't be uttered from the mouths of Huckabee supporters. How many times did we hear that in 2008 and we STILL heard it for 2012 even though GH was leading in every poll whether it was for the primary or for the general. I know it did and still does drive us all nuts. In 2008 Huckabee was dubbed as "he can't win" and that left us with a candidate who didn't win anyway. I really don't think that is good logic.

When I started supporting GH in 2007 I never once looked at a poll nor did I even think about if he could win. I saw him and heard him and knew I had to support him. With my champion out of race for 2012 I have decided to get behind Santorum. Honestly, I thought I was going to sit this one out because I so desperately wanted GH in the race. I wasn't even looking for someone to support, and to his credit, Santorum won me over.

Is he GH? Absolutely not...nor is anyone else. In fact, I don't believe any one candidate can replace another. I think what helped me move to someone else is that I didn't look at the candidates as a Huckabee replacement but instead I looked at them as individuals...who they were as people, what their families and marriages were like, the issues they cared about, if they had a record for fighting for the issues....and winning, if they were well-rounded in all the issues while still being strong on the social issues, and if they could be consistent and convincing in communicating these issues.

Santorum is working harder then any other candidate in Iowa...speaking to anyone and everyone who will listen. It seems the others are treating this like some kind of popularity contest and blowing off chances to answer the hard questions and relying on a bounce in polling to carry them. More and more I am seeing Huckabee supporters get behind Santorum. And you are correct if you see the vote as being very split...it is. I am just hoping and praying that enough people see what is happening and give Santorum a chance. He is not the flashiest out there in a cycle in which conservatives seem to want a rock star, but he always has the most consistent performace while being solid on all the issues and he HAS won on these issues.

It is not long until the Iowa caucuses but yet it is still an eternity when it comes to politics. I believe there is movement towards Santorum and I am hoping perhaps a big endorsement from someone like Bob VanderPlaats or Steve King will throw the gas on the fire that it needs.

Otherwise we will be looking at a Mitt Romney win in Iowa and the nomination will be his on the night of January 3, 2012.

I guess this post means that I am not a true Huckabee Republican.

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 Post subject: Re: Santorum?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:55 pm 
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I just remembered that I saw a Hannity/Luntz panel in Iowa in which there was one person who was very pro Santorum. Everyone else was for Gingrich or Cain and there was one person for Bachmann.

_________________
THE TIMES are nightfall, look, their light grows less;
The times are winter, watch, a world undone:
They waste, they wither worse; they as they run
Or bring more or more blazon man’s distress.
And I not help. Nor word now of success:
All is from wreck, here, there, to rescue one—
Work which to see scarce so much as begun
Makes welcome death, does dear forgetfulness.
Or what is else? There is your world within.
There rid the dragons, root out there the sin.
Your will is law in that small commonweal…
G.M. Hopkins.


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 Post subject: Re: Santorum?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:43 pm 
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The comment about "Huckabee Republicans" was unfortunate & hopefully will be retracted. Those of us who have been here for a while understand that Huckabee truly is a Reagan conservative & attracts support from a broad spectrum - even within the social conservative movement (which does not march in lockstep as is clear to anyone who looks at the polls instead of listening to the lamestream media).

Still, the significance of the electability factor was one thing for a candidate a year + out from Iowa - it is quite another with little better than a month to go. The fact that Huckabee himself referenced the difficulty of Santorum's electability indicates what a serious obstacle it is for him.

The other obstacle for Santorum is that social convervatives tend to give their heart when they give their support. It makes it really difficult for them to "divorce" their candidate even when said candidate is clearly nose-diving.

Santorum has to succeed in Iowa (please Lord!) if we are going to have a shot at a true anybody-but-Romney option.


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 Post subject: Re: Santorum?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:45 am 
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I do still check here occasionally, and every once in a while I surface to comment. I, too, cringed when I read the "no TRUE Huckabee supporter" comment above because I believe that anyone still commenting on this sight is a true supporter.

However, I do have to agree that at this point in time electability does make a difference. I like Rick Santorum but don't believe he will have the momentum that Huckabee had in 2008 to get much further than Iowa even if he would win there. One difference is that he doesn't have the 10 years of governing experience that Huckabee had. Also this is quite late in the Iowa process to rise to the top, and the road ahead is an uphill climb.

Iowans are in a unique position to propel candidates to the next level--or make their road ahead rockier for them. I hope that Iowans will consider which of the most electable GOP candidates is most likely to defeat Obama and be a catalyst to give that candidate a running start towards the goal in 2012--which is not that far away. Of the two at that top right now I believe Gingrich would be a much better choice than Romney.

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 Post subject: Re: Santorum?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:42 am 
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Quote:
Iowans are in a unique position to propel candidates to the next level--or make their road ahead rockier for them. I hope that Iowans will consider which of the most electable GOP candidates is most likely to defeat Obama and be a catalyst to give that candidate a running start towards the goal in 2012--which is not that far away. Of the two at that top right now I believe Gingrich would be a much better choice than Romney.


If we listened to this rhetoric last time then we would have chosen Rudy because he was supposes to have the best chance of defeating Hillary. If you remember, Huckabee was just a Baptist minister who would not win outside of Iowa.

Iowans will hopefully once again choose the most principled candidate...ignoring the pundits...just like they did in 2008.

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 Post subject: Re: Santorum?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:57 am 
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http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/24/santorum-eyes-brass-ring-on-anti-romney-carousel/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS

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 Post subject: Re: Santorum?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:47 pm 
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Say what you will, but you are not looking at the differences in Huckabee and Santorum. Huckabee had experience as a governor. That alone would be enough for me to never label someone with the "he cant win" label. But what does Santorum have going for him? Honestly? Retract the statement, poo-poo it...whatever. At some time you have to wake up and be realistic.


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 Post subject: Re: Santorum?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:10 pm 
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What does Santorum have going for him?
As if not being Romney or Gingrich is not enough? :wink:

Santorum is a more principled human being, rather than a political prostitute (to borrow from SDoc's other post). He has enough political experience that he is not going to be unable to get anything done, & is less likely to get taken in by the sharks in DC, while being more likely to do what is right than what is profitable or politically expedient on the issues that matter most to our country's future.

P.S. If you alienate those you wish to persuade, you are rowing upriver.



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 Post subject: Re: Santorum?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:49 pm 
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If an inexperienced, ignorant half a term Senator like Obama can get elected by the people of this country then I would think that the right multiple term, knowledgeable former Senator could to. It is possible (perhaps not probable but still) that if Santorum succeeds in Iowa many more conservatives will abandon Gingrich and Bachmann and get behind Santorum. I think if I lived in IA I'd be getting behind him with everything I had.

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 Post subject: Re: Santorum?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:55 pm 
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juditupp wrote:
I think if I lived in IA I'd be getting behind him with everything I had.


Phone from home efforts starting next week...so anyone who wants to help Santorum from other states can get involved. Send me a PM if you're interested.


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 Post subject: Re: Santorum?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:27 pm 
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Iowans Rock wrote:



“He could be this year’s version of Mike Huckabee,” he said, alluding to the former Arkansas governor, an ordained minister, who surprisingly won the Hawkeye State in 2008. “He is a true social conservative with no baggage whatsoever.”


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 Post subject: Re: Santorum?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:21 pm 
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Miranda wrote:
Iowans Rock wrote:



“He could be this year’s version of Mike Huckabee,” he said, alluding to the former Arkansas governor, an ordained minister, who surprisingly won the Hawkeye State in 2008. “He is a true social conservative with no baggage whatsoever.”


LOL...no baggage? Two words: Arlen Spector.

Don't get me wrong, I'd vote for the guy in a heartbeat...but he has baggage.


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