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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 10:23 pm 
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North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban

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North Carolina voters Tuesday overwhelmingly approved a proposed amendment to the state’s constitution which limits marriage to traditional one man-one woman marriages.

With half the precincts reporting, the amendment was winning in a landslide, with 60 percent of the vote.


One noteworthy pattern was that some majority black counties which had strongly backed President Obama in 2008 just as strongly supported the proposed amendment on Tuesday.

For example, Hertford County, with a 60 percent black population, voted for Obama with 70 percent in 2008 and on Tuesday 70 percent of its voters backed the constitutional amendment defining marriage.


The amendment says: “Marriage between one man and one woman is the only domestic legal union that shall be valid or recognized in this State.” In effect, it would bar the state from giving legal recognition to civil unions between same-sex couples.

Under North Carolina law, same-sex marriages are already banned.

And opponents of the constitutional amendment did not make the argument that defeating it was a prelude to changing the law so that same-sex couples could legally marry in North Carolina.

“This is not a conversation about a possible change of law down the road,” said Paul Guequierre, a spokesperson for the Coalition to Protect All North Carolina Families, the main group rallying opposition to the amendment, on Monday.

By approving the amendment, North Carolina joins 28 other states that have state constitutional provisions limit marriage to man-woman unions.

On Monday Peter Sprigg, the senior fellow for policy studies at the conservative Family Research Council in Washington said, “Marriage remains an essential social institution which unites men and women to provide for the reproduction of the human race and to provide mothers and fathers for children. We trust that the voters of North Carolina will recognize and protect this vital public purpose of marriage."

But President Barack Obama had opposed the amendment. "While the president does not weigh in on every single ballot measure in every state, the record is clear that the President has long opposed divisive and discriminatory efforts to deny rights and benefits to same sex couples," Cameron French, Obama's North Carolina campaign spokesman, said in March.

A Gallup Poll released Tuesday showed the American people split on the same-sex marriage question: 50 percent think marriages between same-sex couples should be recognized by the law as valid, but 48 percent think they should not be recognized as legal. Among Democrats, 65 percent say same-sex marriages should be recognized by the law as valid, but among only about one in five Republicans hold that view. Among independents, 57 percent think sex marriages should be legally recognized.

Thirty-eight states have prohibitions of same-sex marriage in their laws. Six states and the District of Columbia allow same-sex marriages.


I'm sure the Democrats, who are hoping to win North Carolina and Virginia, are probably a bit nervous about Biden's unforced admission that he supports same-sex marriage completely.

And more evidence that many black voters think the same way that socially conservative Republicans think on values issues.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:35 pm 
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But how many would stay home if Obama came out and said what we all know, that he's pro SSM? I wonder if it would have an effect. Doubt it.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:43 am 
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Miserere wrote:
But how many would stay home if Obama came out and said what we all know, that he's pro SSM? I wonder if it would have an effect. Doubt it.


It would have some effect but not all that much at this point. That is because many think of Republicans as being either hostile to black voters or totally uninterested in us. And so although a fairly notable percentage of black voters have reservations about President Obama, they don't think that there is an acceptable alternative candidate to vote for instead of him. I'll try to explain what I mean.

The perception that Republicans are hostile is in large part due to the history of the relationship between blacks and the GOP since Richard Nixon's 1960 election and also in part because of the personal tone of the Republican opposition to President Obama. Four years ago, many people already thought this to some degree, because people have thought it since the "Southern Strategy" was adopted. But as people have seen the opposition toward President Obama (whose stances and policies are also unpopular with many blacks, as this case suggests) exceed the level of emotion that one would expect if the opposition were simply about policies. Most of America, regardless of whether or not they agree with the President, personally like him. Many of the people who make up the most vocal segment of the Republican Party leadership and constituency appear to virulently hate him. People look at that and say "this can't just be about the fact that he's liberal or that he wants to increase taxes or have mandated health care." And a lot of them conclude that it must be partially motivated by race. And because almost every GOP candidate has tried to outdo each other with languagetalking about how evil the President is, people combine this perception with what they already thought about the GOP and, although they may not be completely happy with President Obama, they think that he's the only option other than the Republicans, who seem to them to be loaded with intense and nearly pathological dislike for someone whom they think is at least a decent dude.

The perception of disinterest is based on the reality of disinterest. Even though the press started reporting about Romney's failure to make any real attempts to build relationships with black Republicans (in contrast to Newt Gingrich, who had among his supporters a number of high profile black conservatives), Romney still hasn't done anything to even start addressing the perception. It's pretty simple. The Republicans know that they're in such a deep hole with black voters that they think it's not worth the time to invest in asking for their vote, especially when the President is black and is still popular among black voters. The black voters who are not liberals and who aren't completely happy with President Obama and who could be persuaded to vote for someone else see that the GOP isn't interested in them. This confirms what they already thought about Republicans and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. And the song goes on and on, on a continual loop, until someone who has vision and leadership gets power in the GOP and addresses it. If Huck had won in 2008 and had continued to reach out to black voters as he did then, the Republicans would own 20-25% of the black vote by now and Democrats would have a tremendously hard time winning national elections.

So, if President Obama said he supported same-sex marriage, it would not cause many of these voters to vote for Romney, because of the issues I listed above. In addition to the fact that Romney himself has been perceived as being less than solid in his support for values issues, which is one reason why many white conservatives may have a problem with Romney as well. But it would certainly cause a depression in turnout for the President, which is why he won't say anything like that ... and why Biden may not have as many opportunities to get in front of a mike anytime soon.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:15 am 
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I am very glad that North Carolina became the 31st state in the nation to pass a Marriage Amendment. And I was thankful that Newt Gingrich came out strongly as the first candidate to endorse it in that state. Praise God. Keep praying for the rest of the states. This should never even be an issue, but Obama and Biden will approve homosexual marriage all the way to November, whether quietly or openly--saying what is needed to fit the particular audience.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:44 am 
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We have worked hard for months to pass this amendment. We've waited for years to get it on the ballot. It's a good time to reflect and thank God for our victory. There were many African American pastors who stood firm supporting the marriage amendment though they were pressured by the NAACP not to do so. I'm so thankful for their stand in the midst of tremendous pressure. We were thrilled to stand side by side with them. I worked the polls all day yesterday and so many folks came just to vote on the amendment who normally don't vote in primaries. The turnout rivaled the turnout in 2008 (when the Dems had a contested ongoing race). So we were thrilled with the turnout as well as the outcome! Thanks to all of you who were praying for us! :pompom

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 2:12 pm 
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You folks make me proud to be a descendant of North Carolina (both my dad and my father-in-law are natives)!!

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:07 pm 
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-- North Carolina Gov. Beverly Perdue (D), quoted by the Raleigh News & Observer, after the state passed a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.

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"Folks are saying what in the world is going on in North Carolina. We look like Mississippi."

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/05/11/2058305/nc-governor-we-look-like-mississippi.html


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 6:44 pm 
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Miranda wrote:
-- North Carolina Gov. Beverly Perdue (D), quoted by the Raleigh News & Observer, after the state passed a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.

Quote:
"Folks are saying what in the world is going on in North Carolina. We look like Mississippi."

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/05/11/2058305/nc-governor-we-look-like-mississippi.html


Yep, that's why we're replacing Bev. She's so unpopular she decided not to run for re-election. :lol:

I for one am pretty proud to be compared to the good folks of Mississippi!! :pompom

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 6:44 pm 
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TheValuesVoter wrote:
You folks make me proud to be a descendant of North Carolina (both my dad and my father-in-law are natives)!!


TVV, where are your dad and father-in-law from?

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:31 am 
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Interesting commentary ...

If anyone who has decision making authority within the Romney campaign has a functioning brain, they would immediately begin working to build relationships with black voters. The same-sex marriage developments have given many voters a reason to not vote Democratic. If the party hacks are smart - even a little bit - they'd start working to give black voters a reason to vote Republican ...

http://www.eurweb.com/2012/05/cnns-racist-depiction-of-the-black-church-and-gay-marriage/

Dr Boyce: CNN’s Racist Depiction of The Black Church and Gay Marriage

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On the front page of CNN today, there was an interesting article about the divide between the Obama Administration and the African American church.

The author of the piece seems to be implying that black church opposition to gay marriage is hypocritical, in large part because the bible being quoted by Christians is the same one that promoted the institution of slavery.

I was immediately irked by the insinuation that somehow, anyone who opposes gay marriage is driven by the same ignorance that led some enslavement of other human beings. CNN is a network that has shown itself to be in support of gay rights (Anderson Cooper and Don Lemon are members of the gay community, and the network supported Lemon’s book about the agony of being black and gay). The position is admirable, since we can appreciate the concept of providing equal rights to everyone.

I don’t oppose gay marriage myself, but I was annoyed by the CNN article. What bothered me most about CNN’s depiction of the black church is that it is one that wreaks of the kind of liberal paternalism that treats African Americans as if we are savages who need to be educated by white folks. The comparison of gay marriage opposition to slavery is a deliberate effort to poke at the political pressure point of African Americans, reducing our most painful collective experience into a political football. It’s no different from telling a woman that she should protest the labor practices of Wal-Mart because she was once raped by a Wal-Mart employee.

While the black church has been under the spotlight for its opposition to gay marriage, I can’t help but notice that this same nasty criticism has not been unleashed onto white Christians. From what I understand, most Christians adhere to the same principles and read from the same bible, and I remain confused as to why African Americans are being singled out in such a way. There seems to be a misguided perception that black voters owe something to the Democrats. While we are welcome to join the Democratic agenda, the black agenda is usually considered to be unworthy of consideration.


Note to liberal Democrats: Black people don’t owe you anything. We bring our beliefs about faith, family and society to the table in the same way you bring your own beliefs about global warming, animal rights, and the torture of detainees at Guantanamo Bay. Our issues are not always going to be in lockstep, and you have no right to scold us like children when we do not see eye-to-eye.

An even bigger secret is that there are millions of African Americans who are actually closet conservatives, and their thin loyalty to the Democratic agenda is one that is driven by Democratic support for civil rights, affirmative action and various social programs. If the disrespect continues and Republicans let go of some of that racism, you might see millions of black people jumping ship. I say all this as a person who hasn’t gone to church for months, and a man who will never vote Republican. But one thing I have that many liberals do not is the desire to respect opinions that differ from my own.

Black people are not meant to be politically imperialized Democratic puppets. We can think for ourselves.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:16 am 
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There is a tendency for political analysts and political strategists for both parties to analyze and separate people into groups. They like to talk of people groups as monoliths. "All southerners are more polite. But they all tote guns and cling to religion, or worse, religious superstition." Or "all blacks are Democrat and will go along with the party."

I keep telling my Republican friends that we need to do a far better job of reaching out to all conservatives. We need to do a much better job of inviting black and Latino conservatives in and helping them identify with our pro-life and pro-family platform.

Americans are being given a nauseating taste in this election of top-down politics, which is the opposite of listening to the people to develop goals and strategies. The parties are trying to dictate candidates, dominate election rules, decide votes for people groups, and use power to keep power for their cronies. This is using people for political purposes, instead of promoting the freedom of conscience and speech, or giving power to the individual citizen. The word politics comes from a root meaning citizen. But you would think it came from the word power, or maybe dirt.

Republicans as a whole have done a very poor job of listening to minorities, or even to their own conservatives of any stripe. I would say at this point that many conservatives believe Romney is the inevitable nominee--because the RINOS in charge of the party tell them it is so. They have given up and given in.

I do hope those here who supported Santorum will keep Romney from being elected by voting for Gingrich (my choice) or Santorum or even Paul, who are still on the ballots. Only with a brokered convention does it seem that we could keep Romney from being the inevitable. Not only would he be an ineffective and moderate-to-liberal President. He would campaign to the right and compromise (govern) to the left.

We have learned from experience with Bob Dole and John McCain that "moderate" and "weak on conservative values" will not provide stark enough contrast to excite voters. People will tend to either stay home out of lack of enthusiasm or to vote for the incumbent. In every state where Romney has won, it has been a result of voter suppression--not by illegal shenanigans, but simply by lack of enthusiasm for him as our flag-bearer. Not only has he been mistrusted as a "flip-flpper" and opportunist; he has also been pushed by the party and the media, especially Fox News, which is partly owned by his business, Bain Capital.

In state after state, Republican voters have not come out in large numbers due to the Republican party trying to elect Romney as inevitable. So far, this primary has resulted in far fewer conservatives getting out to vote. They feel helpless and hopeless--not a good indication of how the general election might go. On the Democrat side, Obama's crowds are down, too, but the money still seems to be flowing in from wealthy and powerful leftists.

There seems to be a sense of complacency and inevitability settling in among Americans. Just at a time when we need to fight and have a strong leader who will help us retain whatever rights "we the people" may still have. At a time when our country is on the brink of a bankruptcy, fiscally and morally, that threatens our future existence.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:51 am 
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brownkb wrote:
TheValuesVoter wrote:
You folks make me proud to be a descendant of North Carolina (both my dad and my father-in-law are natives)!!


TVV, where are your dad and father-in-law from?


Sampson County and Fayetteville. I consider myself an honorary North Carolinian

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:07 pm 
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I'm in Charlotte but eastern NC is a great area (my in-laws are from Columbus County). They were the key to passing the marriage amendment due to high turnout there. Well, we'd welcome you back to NC. We seem to get only progressives coming from the northeast. We could use more conservatives! :pompom

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