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Christians & conservatives are the original conservationists
Totally Agree 61%  61%  [ 22 ]
Moderately Agree 14%  14%  [ 5 ]
Agree 11%  11%  [ 4 ]
Moderately Disagree 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
Totally Disagree 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 36
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:53 am 
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Just posted my endorsement of Mike over at The Evangelical Ecologist blog.

http://www.evaneco.com/?p=763

Of all the conservative candidates out there he has the strongest record on conservation, and has been the most outspoken guy on how his faith drives his desire for environmental stewardship.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:17 pm 
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Glad to have you, Evaneco...I look forward to having your perspective on issues...


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 Post subject: Global Climate Change
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:56 am 
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I haven't heard Mike speak to Global Climate Change, does anyone have pointers to Mike's thoughts (and record)? I know he is in favor of drilling in ANWR as part of his energy independence plan (which I am not, if I ever meet Mike in person I am going to try to sway him on that one :D)

Here is a well-done (and entertaining) take on global climate change: http://www.youtube.com/user/wonderingmind42

I agree with the guy in the video that global climate change will likely make many other issues relatively insignificant.

I do not wish to have a discussion on climate change here, I am just looking for info on Mike's take on it.


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 Post subject: Commenting on your poll
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:40 am 
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I have observed that most people in the sustainability community perceive the "religious right" as caring little about environmental issues. They perceive "religious" people as having the attitude that "the earth is just a temporary home which is going to be destroyed (soon), so why bother trying to preserve it?" Unfortunately I think that perception was partially true in our parents' generation. But I don't believe it is in ours.

I am sure this is going to be a big issue with many voters, causing them to turn away from any "religious" candidate.


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 Post subject: Christian ecology
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:59 am 
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Brian Lawson has a post * about Mike's active participation in the "Global Warming & Energy Solutions" conference a couple weeks ago in New Hampshire. YouTube of him on this subject too.**

I have an email into the MH campaign to interview him on this issue, but from the news articles I've read about him, I think he's taking what's becoming the new middle ground in climate change politics for Evangelicals.

Basically, NAE and other evangelical leaders*** realize a couple things. Climate change (or human-induced global warming) is very complicated science, and is further complicated by the political, economic and social issues associated with it. This makes it a potentially divisive issue among Christians even as it has divided many in the public at large. These leaders also realize that while our dependence on fossil fuels may be contributing to climate change, it is most certainly propping up regimes in the Americas and the Middle East, and is contributing to air pollution aside from the CO2 issue.**** Finally, they also realize that for better or worse most of the world is now dependent on fossil fuel energy. To walk in and simply eliminate it will harm the poor, but sooner or later as fuel prices skyrocket the poor will be hugely impacted anyway.

In short, the focus is to press for alternative energy and reducing world dependence on fossil fuels for a number of good reasons, including environmental stewardship, economic security, and clean energy development in the emerging third world. While government has some solutions, the most effective way to drive this sort of drastic global change is economic incentives and the power of entrepreneurial imagination. If as many claim this will also reduce our CO2 footprint, so much the better.

*http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brian-lawson/candidates-participate-in_b_68749.html

** Here's a YouTube answering a reporter's question on climate change, energy independence, economic incentives, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgSjQW2rN8I

*** I recently attended a conference of evangelicals on the environment. Here's the blog post on that one. http://www.evaneco.com/?p=669

****UPDATE: Christians in Tennessee and other coal mining areas are also concerned about the impacts of strip mining this fossil fuel on creation. See http://www.evaneco.com/?p=751 and http://www.christiansforthemountains.org/ for example.

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Last edited by Evangelical Ecologist on Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:20 am 
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I Like Mike

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Thanks davem, Evangelical Ecologist,
Can I take an informal poll of Huckabee supporters on the nuclear option, specifically a Liquid Floride Thorium Salt reactor? Has anyone else researched this Gen IV option? While other options such as wind power can be much cheaper, is there any other alternative besides nuclear power that could completely fulfill the energy demand of the world?
Brandon


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:15 pm 
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I think Gov. Huckabee's environmental stance is a positive and refreshing change from the normal perception of the GOP. I think a few extremists have given conservation a bad name because of some of their antics. I personally am not comfortable with placing an equal value on the lives of human beings and ferns or zebra mussels, for instance. However, if religious conservatives truly believe that "The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof" (Ps. 24:1a), then it should follow that we have no right to abuse the earth and cause entire species to go extinct.

This is one of the issues that could be a big plus for us in the general election, and it is exactly why those who are looking for a candidate that can beat Hillary should cast their support fully behind Gov. Huckabee. My father-in-law, for instance, has always said that he generally agrees with the GOP, except on environmental issues. Hopefully, Gov. Huckabee's position on this issue will win him over. (Just a few weeks ago, he asked me what I thought of Romney. :roll: )


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:59 pm 
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Actually nuclear (at least fission) can’t solve the worlds energy problems. Remember it too is based on a finite resource. It requires us to mine uranium etc. There is enough wind power in the plane states to power the US 3 times over. When there is extra energy you can store it as hydrogen, then convert is back when the wind isn’t blowing. That being said, I suspect the final solution will be mainly wind, but will also have a large solar component as costs continue to decrease.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:17 pm 
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Mike speaks about environmental stewardship in this video:

http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?titl ... 1243805694 - Listen to 3:35 - 5:40


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:22 pm 
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From http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7075759.stm
Quote:
Most people are ready to make personal sacrifices to address climate change, according to a BBC poll of 22,000 people in 21 countries.
...
BBC environment reporter Matt McGrath says the poll suggests that in many countries people are more willing than their governments to contemplate serious changes to their lifestyles to combat global warming.

Overall, 83% of respondents throughout the world agreed that individuals would definitely or probably have to make lifestyle changes to reduce the amount of climate-changing gases they produce.

In almost all countries in Europe, and in the US, most people said they believed the cost of fuels that contribute most to climate change would have to increase.

In the US, 51% were opposed to raising taxes on energy sources that contribute to climate change. However if you add the condition that the additional tax revenues be devoted to improving efficiency and seeking out new energy sources, 74% of people agreed to raising taxes.

It seems clear that people are ready to take action even if their government is not.

It was also interesting to note that the country most supportive of increasing taxes on oil & coal to fund efficiency/new sources is China - 97%.


Last edited by davem on Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:35 pm 
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OnTheIssues.org wrote:
Follow Boy Scout rule: leave earth better than we found it
Q: Thousands of reputable scientists have concluded with almost certainly that human activity is responsible for the warming of the Earth. Do you believe global warming exists?
A: The most important thing about global warming is this. Whether humans are responsible for the bulk of climate change is going to be left to the scientists, but it's all of our responsibility to leave this planet in better shape for the future generations than we found it. It's the old Boy Scout rule of the campsite: You leave the campsite in better shape than you found it. I believe that even our responsibility to God means that we have to be good stewards of this Earth, be good caretakers of the natural resources that don't belong to us, we just get to use them. We have no right to abuse them.

Source: 2007 GOP primary debate, at Reagan library, hosted by MSNBC May 3, 2007

Supported conserving Buffalo River in north AR against dams
While I understand that building dams on streams can sometimes be useful in flood control, the creation of water reservoirs necessary for sustaining life, or for the production of electricity, we must be careful to balance our use of those resources to ensure that we do not lose all our natural treasures by altering them.
In the 1960s and early 1970s conservationists in Arkansas successfully fought back attempts to build a dam on the Buffalo River in North Arkansas, the phenomenal stream that became America's first National River. To this day it is one of the most magnificently beautiful and vibrant natural streams on the continent. Every time I experience a canoe float down the Buffalo I realize I owe an extraordinary amount of gratitude to some stubborn conservationist from a previous generation who kept the Buffalo River from becoming little more than a memory for old-timers to talk about.

Source: From Hope to Higher Ground, by Mike Huckabee, p. 76 Jan 4, 2007

Conservatives believe in conservation
My position as a conservative Republican with a disdain for excessive taxation is well earned. My hosts were apprehensive about discussing the ballot initiative, which would have dedicated tax monies to conservation.
I said, "Gentlemen, I can assure you that I will not campaign against the proposal, and in fact, I am strongly in favor of it."

There has been a perception that conservative Republicans do not care much for the environment or the protection and preservation of natural resources. I remind people that the very word "conservative" means that we are all about conserving things that are valuable and dear. Few things are more valuable to us than the natural resources that God created and gave to us to carefully manage.

One of the proudest moments I have had as a governor is the passage of what became Amendment 75 to the Arkansas Constitution. It forever dedicates a small but vital revenue stream to the conservation of our state's valuable and irreplaceable resources.

Source: From Hope to Higher Ground, by Mike Huckabee, p. 71-72 Jan 4, 2007

The earth is the Lord's; we are merely its caretakers
My own personal faith reminds me that "the earth is the Lord's" and that we are not its owners; merely its caretakers. From the very first pages of Genesis in the Old Testament we are reminded that God is the Creator and we are responsible for tending to that which he created; to preserve it and to protect it. We are indeed given the liberty and in fact the admonition to enjoy and utilize the resources, but use is not abuse and we have no right to pillage the planet unmercifully. We should see to it that our care for the environment enhances not only its aesthetic value but preserves the resources themselves for future generations.
Source: From Hope to Higher Ground, by Mike Huckabee, p. 73 Jan 4, 2007

More

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Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, "If anyone wants to be first, he must be the very last, and the servant of all."
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:10 pm 
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This thread is fantastic. The minds here could easily come up with the game plan to be energy independent in 10 years. That source on Florida I need to study, but a summation would be helpful.. You can use this or another thread to brainstorm. I heard the other day that fusion is too expense. Is that true? I know it is a lot safer then fission.

We need a plan. The ethanol plants are to be around 1900 in ten years. The technology for the processing has just taken a great leap in viability. The beginning of the poush for ethanol plants came about by Micghigan Statte doing a study and finding that corn fed beef is high in Dioxin. So a need for the use of grain had to be found to keep the economy on keel.

The 10 yr. plan needs to be in outline form and not too technical in language.

MIke Huckabee is for earth stewardship. As to the global warming, I am not at all convinced that humans have any impact, maybe.01 degrees. The earth goes through cycles, some caused by sunspots, some caused by the cycle of volcanoes. Incidently, Benjamin Franklin deduced that on strong volcano lowered the Earth temparature by four degrees due oto dust in the atmosphere.

Evangelical Ecologist, welcome to the Huckabee camp. I am wondering how you came to know about Mike and how those around you are responding to Mike Huckabee? I am also wondering if you have any advise from your perch in America?

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 Post subject: from the perch...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:25 am 
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haven't forgotten you. so many good thoughts! on the road this weekend, but will get something up this week...

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:45 am 
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One spot where they have some good ideas that has been well researched on this issue is.

http://www.apolloalliance.org/


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:04 am 
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Kroneborge wrote:
One spot where they have some good ideas that has been well researched on this issue is.

http://www.apolloalliance.org/

And in all that talk of Green, there is not one reality made, just talk. and it leads over to this:

Make the economy work. Most importantly, progressives must champion economic policies that benefit the many and not simply the few. With full employment and rising wages, Americans can save better, workers can demand better retirement benefits from employers and Social Security?s projected shortfall can be reduced. Universal health care would reduce what families have to spend on health care costs and protect seniors against soaring drug and medical costs. Improved energy policies can help Americans save better by sparing them from rapidly-rising gas and home heating prices.

Strengthen Social Security. Progressives must work to strengthen Social Security and protect it from future assaults.


The progressive of the whole leaves no incentive for the progressing of the individual. History shows that communism does not work and no matter how pretty the painting, the reality will still require itself.

As to the attitude of becoming energy independent in ten years is grand, and all those green solutions are on the table, both fusion nuclear power as a majority and the new technologically advanced drilling of our oil shelves is also a must and way late. Don't forget removing the excise tax on our exports which is hidden tax, will make our manufactoring more competative with foreign markets.

Anyone know about Fusion?

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